"GSFG Recognition Guide" Topic

Having listened to a podcast about TY I thought I would publish a couple of phots of the MBTs that equipped GSFG in the 80s:

T-64

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T-80

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Oooh look no T-72!

Tally Ho!

That makes sense so they went through 1GTA and 8 GTA in order to attack the US chaps! There are inaccuracies in the book that they perpetuate,

Tally Ho!

I'm on board for the game, I'm looking forward to all the releases. I also know BF have and will get lots of the era and OOBs wrong, though I never expected them to get it right.

Not wanting to stick up for FOW, or Team Yankee. But have recently reread Hackett's Third World War and he has GSFG with T72, and am now reading First Clash that has Russians with T72. On looking through my small collection of WW3 books all written round the same time all seem to think the T72 was the bid bad

I know should not use fiction as a guide, but some were written by people considered expert.

Indeed and the best quote from BF was that it is a game for models, and although I will try it, it was my time and I am pedantic!!!!
Tally Ho!

Authors had GSFG with T-72 but they are wrong. Some of us were there and there were no T-72 except for the NVA. 2 & 3SA were T-64 until replaced with T-80 in the late 80s, 20, 1 & 8GA were T-80. There was confusion with regards the replacement for T-62 that led to people believing that the new Tank was T-72 but it was found to be wrong. In the event GSFG was as above CGF a mix of T-64 & T-72.

Tally Ho!

Bfront have made no secret of the fact that, at least the initial releases, are Based on the 1980's novel which was itself based on a 1970's novel. Both of these books, despite being written by knowledgeable military men, contained errors. Now why Bfrnt have chosen to do this I have no idea. But, given their success as a business to date, I am sure they have their reasons. Now given that they have just said that they are going to do forces and vehicles not featured in the book I would hope that T-64's and T-80's will be on the agenda. Ifnot they are available from other sources.

If you are looking for historical accuracy (Which given the subject is impossible.) couldI suggest that FoW is not the system for you anyway as it is aimed at the game side of warGAMING. I intend to buy the toys and use them with another set of rules. "I Ain't Been Nuked Mum", when they come outin case anyone wants to know.

Fatman

I agree they did not have them, Spent too much doing recognition courses. There are loads of people on here who spent/misspent time doing same thing. But I can understand why a company based in NZ would read some books and believe they are right.

I will not use the rules, do not like BF rules, but waiting to see what they bring out. If they do 432 like their M113s will be happy

Gunner, I think the book gives a good basis for a set of rules and an easy source of inspiration, especially for new folks.

As for historical accuracy, it is not impossible because we know the ORBATs and TO&E of the time.

Tally Ho!

Could the problem be as easy as they looked in wrong books cos they did not know it was the wrong answer. I have lots of books from my time and after that all say T72 was nasty piece of work. So can forgive them a bit.

I am afraid my attitude to FOW is ignore their rules but buy their toys. You must know by now they will do what they want. They will bring out 62s & 64s soon.

You know how medieval players bite their tongue and wince at Robin Hood games? Well might have do that.

Still like your photos though. So keep posting them. Just do not expect them to change businesses plan now.

nickinsomerset
When I said "historical accuracy (Which given the subject is impossible.)" I simply meant how can you be historically accurate about a conflict that historically didn't happen? :-)

Fatman

Oh and yes the pics are great and I for one am enjoying them.

I hate to say it…..

The donkey Walloper is correct…..

No T72…

Will the 432 have a peak turret option?!

In looking through some of the older FMs, I've seen pics of T-64s listed as T-70s (IIRC), and/or T-72s.

I will just be declaring mine to be East Germans.

Now, or course, we'll be needing some proper East German figures in this scale to permit that.

The M240/M249 machinegun thing, instead of the proper M60 MG bothers me more.

Given the way they did the M113s, I suspect the peak turret and mortar options will be included with the basic FV432 kits.

One silver lining to all this, BF are motivated purely by minis sales. If the game sells well, they will not hesitate to make more toys for us to buy. On that basis, expect to see them bring both the T64 and T80 to market. This is a starter set, future books will be army specific so I fully expect to see at least one book for GSFG with all the toys they can sell.

Its weird, but the more this game and line sells the more accurate it will get.

I will be using the T-72 M1981 variants for my 1982 Syrian forces. Problem is one of bulk sales though. If everyone buys the T-72 few people will add the other variants later (if they do come out),

Leopard 1 kit with a couple of variants would be a good seller, but the Leopard 2/Marder comment on the podcast means I have a couple of doubts, but then again I will probably end up with both sides anyway and it will be my choice when playing my games what is on the table.

I'm looking to Khurasan for my T64s, will be using them as proxies for the T72 for TY play.

They released a Diana and a Dickers Max, I'm confident that if TY sells they'll get to them.

No doubt that 1/3rd of the 3rd Shock Army's MBTs were T-64s (wether they ever ventured far from the Kaserne is a different question!) but of course this was in the NORTHAG area. TY is set further S in the CENTAG area.

Going from memory (very OLD memory!), but I believe the same applied to CENTAG; lots of T-64s. Of course, like you said, given their maintenance record, they might have stayed home more often than not!

No doubt that 100% of 3 Shock Armys MBTs were T-64 until replaced by T-80. And yes they were observed on the various trg areas,

Tally Ho!

Re CENTAG op cit the US sector, the main Tank formation was the 79th Guards Tank Division, which it seems was equipped with T-62 and T-55…

link

Re sighting T-64s out on training areas, well, I've been sighted in gyms on occasion…

The answer is do you want to play Team Yankee, or NATO against Warsaw Pact.

In the book they use T72, so if playing the book that makes some sense. If playing Magnificent 7 you would expect 7 hero's and lots of baddies. So Team Yankee M1 versus T72. And if that floats people boat, well fine hope they enjoy.

I would rather use Chieftains, or M60 against T55,62 or 64. I promise not say mean things about their game, if they let me get on with mine

79 Guards Tank Div was part of 8 Guards Army, GSFG, based around Jena, and by the 80s was equipped with T-80. I think if my memory serves me the last formation still equipped with T-62 in the early 80s was 20 GA.

Tally Ho!

Re CENTAG op cit the US sector, the main Tank formation was the 79th Guards Tank Division, which it seems was equipped with T-62 and T-55…

The date noted for that OOB was 1974. Most of the T-64s would have started arriving mid to late 70s. By the late 80s, they had transitioned to T-80s.

Yes in the just released Osprey on the T-64, Steven Zaloga notes that T-64s were mostly gone from GSFG by 1985. Shame…

The reason for basing the game on a fictional novel is super smart. It's very similar (and one step away) from a GW style codex system allowing eventually more and more ranges to be released once historical ranges are exhausted.

"were mostly gone from GSFG by 1985"

Actually in mid 80s they were bringing in the T64B. Quite easy to spot a T-64 even under tarp because of the way the barrel is parked. In addition tanker trucks with T-64 were the Ural 375 whilst with T-80 the Kraz, easy to spot.

But still no Hordes of T-72 crossing the German plains, shame!

Tally Ho!

Nick is right again. There were still plenty of T-64s (both T-64A and T-64B) in GSFG in late 1988 when I left Germany (or was GSFG called WGF by then? I forget.).

I well remember back in the day when sitting in with some intel types that you could tell which unit had T-80s and which had not by the tankers that were accompanying the unit.

As for BF's insistence on T-72s (in complete defiance of what we now know), well, that's just their "way", I suppose. All you have to do is look at their WWII game to gauge that….

No its not their way, its the novel its all based on's way! Written by a guy who was there – there being CENTAG, not NORTHAG, where the T-64s were concentrated. In my view basing the initial release and hype on the novel is a clever way of maximising the marketing and impact, and thus popularising and drawing in new blood to this period/genre.

Of course if its all a terrific flop and it doesn't draw new blood into the hobby, well all we are left with are some pretty good and damn cheap plastic kits. And a wonderful chance for cold war grognards to nit pick away to their heart's content!

"No its not their way, its the novel its all based on's way!"

Navy Rum or Southern Hemisphere speak?!!!

And yes a good marketing ploy and generating tons of interest.

Tally Ho!

Of course as much of the action appears to take place in the Thüringer Wald (East of the Fulda gap area) , towards Leipzig and Berlin, makes one wonder what 8GA and 1GTA with their T-80s were up to! Not forgetting if they were deployed along towards the IGB they would have presented a nice flank to the T-72s of CGF!

Just saying,

Tally Ho!

Navy Rum or Southern Hemisphere speak?!!!

Just bad England combined with finger trouble I suppose! (Now I'm a civvy the grog is confined to the weekends….)