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"Personality, design and can a wargame be anti-war?" Topic


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1,317 hits since 19 Oct 2015
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Weasel19 Oct 2015 9:23 a.m. PST

I posted this on the NWG blog but I figured you lot might enjoy it too.

Curious about people's thoughts.

Note that since this was from my own blog, it references No End in Sight. Feel free to disregard this blatant commercialism at your discretion :)

* * * * *
Today's post will be a bit rambling, so bear with me.

It's always risky to put yourself out there.

Whenever you publish something, you're opening yourself up a little bit and that can be pretty scary stuff. We've all had that feeling when you have to do a presentation in the office, because you know how rough your peers can get, and now they'll be criticizing YOUR idea.

Scary, right?

A lot of game design tends to be very neutral. We aim for things that are emotionally distant and removed, because that way, we can limit the discussion to being one about mechanics and dice, one where every option is equally valid and personal tastes are all that distinguish.

But what happens when you make it personal?

Thinking about my favourite games of all time, they're all games that were steeped in personality. Where the desires of the writer were evident and where it was clear, the guy or girl was writing for themselves and we were just getting a peek into the process.
The Warhammer RPG, old Traveller, Laserburn, Rogue Trader, Burning Wheel. Nuts.
The list goes on.

When I write, I try to make things from my own point of view. Some of those sensibilities are about game design and mechanics I either like or hate.
Some of it is in a way to view the world.

When I did "No End in Sight", a lot of that game was reaction. Reaction to people telling me that certain things couldn't be done, reaction to what I saw as prevailing attitudes in the modern wargaming field.

I saw people setting up modern wargames and the scenarios were basically just a dice rolling exercise where the "modern" force was competing against itself to see how many insurgents they could kill.
And it never sat right with me.

Maybe it's because I grew up on books like All Quiet on the Western Front and with shows like MASH, but I wanted to capture something a bit different.
Most importantly, I wanted to write a game that I would want to play.

I've often joked that the "In Sight" system is more stressful for the players than for the troops getting the "Stress" markers. You are constantly fighting to get things done and often have to resort to desperate measures.
That squad sweeping through the buildings to secure the flank? They'll be scrambling in the dirt for a leftover RPG, so they can knock out the BMP chewing them up.
Your impenetrable defensive line? Now it's 3 survivors trying to guard the wounded and simply hold on for dear life.

If you haven't read up on the "third world war" campaign option in the book. It almost never ends well.
This is intentional.

Growing up as a kid in cold war Denmark, the impression we had was that if the balloon went up, we'd all be dead, and we were powerless to do anything about the two mad giants, aiming rockets at each other.
That feeling probably never left me.

No End in Sight, more than anything else I ever did, was a game that clearly delivers my own message.
And I was terrified when I released it.
Would people take offence to it? Would it become a tool of the people who want to fight culture wars? Was it a terrible mistake? Should I just keep my mouth shut?

In the end, it went well. Reception was great. I got emails from people who I knew to be staunch right-wingers with firm pro-military mindsets and they loved the game.
Not because it tried, in some tiny way, to be anti-militaristic but, I think, because they felt I had treated the topic sincerely and with respect.
Military people understand more than anything that soldiering is a distilled microcosm of what it means to be human.

Your soldiers in No End in Sight aren't cartoon soldiers. They're just little imaginary humans.
And being human is all we ever have.

vtsaogames19 Oct 2015 9:35 a.m. PST

This is an attempt to get me to play No End in Sight.
I steadfastly refuse to play games of wars where people I know could have been hurt, which cuts off after the Korean War (I was in diapers then).

OK, in fact my father and grandfather were both at risk during WWII and I'll play that. But you get my drift.

I think you answered your own question. One of these days I'll try 5 Core Company Commander on my crew again.

Edit: I see no reason why a wargame can't be anti-war. Some good war movies are (and some bad ones too).

Weasel19 Oct 2015 9:44 a.m. PST

It wasn't intended as a marketing spiel but it kinda is, I guess :)

I think the question of "what will you play?" is a good one, and that discussion comes up fairly often.

I know people who won't play any moderns because they or friends were in it, and I know a guy who was in Vietnam and always plays the VC when he plays 'Nam games.

I think these things are deeply personal for a lot of people. Everyone has their own truths, right?

cloudcaptain19 Oct 2015 10:38 a.m. PST

Even with good strategy you tend to lose troops left and right in many games. What defines an acceptable loss?

Wargaming (digital and minis) has taught me that no one really wins in the end. Hopefully the cause was a worthy one.

Using Imagi-nations or sticking to Fantasy/Scifi takes some of that sting away in my case.

Fake war can be fun. Real war sucks. That said I never form attachments to a *side* and enjoy playing the underdogs as much as the *villains*.

bruntonboy19 Oct 2015 11:07 a.m. PST

All wargames to me are anti-war. Without playing games I don't think I would have really appreciated loss on the battlefield in the way I do. I am antiwar but I do enjoy a good wargame, contradictory I know.

USAFpilot19 Oct 2015 1:04 p.m. PST

The difference between real war and war gaming is that nobody gets killed in a game. Separate and compartimentalize the two in your mind and then go write or play whatever games strike your fancy.

Porthos20 Oct 2015 4:11 a.m. PST

An ex-prisoner of Colditz in Germany (Dutch WW2 POW )once said: "War is a dirty violence". Our games have nothing to do with that. What happens on our tables is "movies", that have nothing to do with reality, and we would not WANT reality. We have an interest in history and we have an interest in artistic activity, painting little tin or plastic miniatures and creating scenic. Those of us who have experienced Iraq or Afghanistan or Mali or any other place perhaps do not want to re-create those experiences (and we others of course respect that) or perhaps do like to re-create them because this activity does not hurt anyone, different from their real experience.
Enoying a good wargame has absolutely nothing to do with real war.

surdu200521 Oct 2015 3:01 a.m. PST

"…War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse. When a people are used as mere human instruments for firing cannon or thrusting bayonets, in the service and for the selfish purposes of a master, such war degrades a people. A war to protect other human beings against tyrannical injustice; a war to give victory to their own ideas of right and good, and which is their own war, carried on for an honest purpose by their free choice--is often the means of their regeneration. A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature, who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. As long as justice and injustice have not terminated their ever renewing fight for ascendancy in the affairs of mankind, human beings must be willing, when need is, to do battle for the one against the other…."~John Stuart Mill, The Contest in America, vol. 1, p.26 (1868).

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP21 Oct 2015 7:34 a.m. PST

Growing up as a kid in cold war Denmark, the impression we had was that if the balloon went up, we'd all be dead, and we were powerless to do anything about the two mad giants, aiming rockets at each other.
That feeling probably never left me.

It probably shouldn't have. You don't have to be a member of the giants' club to fling rockets around anymore. At least the giants were held back by the idea of MAD; not so confident about restraint in the other players nowadays.

As far as the point in the post, it is an inherent property of a wargame to express the viewpoint of the designer. Ultimately, the designer's viewpoint selects what is "important" – what will be included in the game, and what is not. The mechanics are simply an outcome of that basis (and decisions about style, which are also subjective).

One hopes that framing that viewpoint for a specific game is done deliberately. Sounds like yours was, which made it make sense to others with different viewpoints.

Jozis Tin Man21 Oct 2015 10:30 a.m. PST

Interesting topic, Ivan. War is dirty, messy, and violent. I agree with Buck's Mill quote and there are times when it is necessary to take arms.

This is from personal experience as well, but I am paraphrasing John Keegan. A large part of leadership training in a modern army is designed to remove the emotional element when thinking and talking about combat. For example, you call battalion and report a "Company Sized attack" not " 100 guys coming to try to kill me." or "Contact front" rather than "Holy %$^@&, there they are!'

I think some of this rubs off into hobby wargaming. Veterans are terribly aware of the human cost but are trained to suppress it, which is far easier to do with metal men that with your best friend. Many (but certainly not all) non-veterans, let's say the average 18 year old playing 40K) do not instinctively think about that.

I hope that makes sense. If what I consider a fun, tactical decision game also provokes deeper thought for folks, then so much the better.

Personal logo McLaddie Supporting Member of TMP21 Oct 2015 8:08 p.m. PST

"You have only to play at Little Wars a few times to realize what a blundering thing Great Wars must be."
~H.G. Wells, Little Wars

I think that anyone who plays historical wargames learns pretty quickly that even with the most chance-free games, miscalculation and freakish events are ever present and something that could be called a decisive victory historically is a rare occurance on any level. So, in some respects all wargames are 'anti-war.'

And as for an anti-war wargame being well-received. Remember the most successful commerical game, Monopoly, was designed to be an anti-capitalism message.

Skarper22 Oct 2015 1:59 a.m. PST

I don't know about 'anti-war' wargames. I suppose to a degree any realistic game is going to be a little bit anti-war.

I certainly would not play a 'pro-war' wargame.

War is terrible, the ultimate failure of humanity. Sometimes [quite rarely IMO] it is unavoidable to prevent a worse outcome.

I tend to be wary of 'fun' wargames. A wargame can be absorbing, interesting, informative and therefore enjoyable.

Fun? Not so sure. I wouldn't want players gloating over enemy casualties however in character it may be. Even if the enemy are dreadful human beings they remain human beings.

This is – I think – one of the spurs driving forward the Fantasy/Sci-Fi boom. The enemy don't even exist, are not human and can be 'evil misshapen orcs' or unthinking aliens.

It must be difficult to design a game that tackles the modern realities well and remains a game. Kudos to the OP for trying and it seems to a large extent succeeding.

Jcfrog22 Oct 2015 2:56 a.m. PST

Wargames are related to war as watching Hannibal ( not that one the skull eating one) is related to starting on being a serial killer.

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