"Mid-1970's Soviet Motor Rifle Infantry Squads and Platoons." Topic

To the wise Magi of TMP:

OK, I admit it. I have Soviet Squad/Platoon organization fatigue. So many changes over the years. I am assembling 10 BTR-60PB's and 10 BMP-1's for 15mm Cold War skirmish/tactical games but what would be the composition of squads and platoons between the years 1975 and 1980? I have three platoons of Khurasan 1970's Soviet MR Infantry plus some extras for a company command squad, but frankly I am unsure of what to field.

A second question: Were AGL-17 Plamya's widely in service in the 1975-1980 period and if so how many from the BTR mounted AGL platoon attached to each battalion might be reasonably expected to be attached to a BTR mounted MR company? If memory serves me correctly Plamya's were not issued to BMP mounted battalions until the mid-1980's.

Cheers and thanks for any guidance you can offer.
Rod Robertson

Hi Rod,

I've been reading over these of late, and have seen a few different takes on them, depending upon the period.

Number one though, that I'm sure of is you really need 2 more BMPs and BTRs, for the weapons platoon (2 of each, respectively, matching their other IFVs/APCs).

I've seen them listed as each vehicle carrying 3 x machine guns each, for a total of six per platoon in the two vehicles (I've also seen 2 per vehicle as well, for a total of four).

Apparently, at some levels of the USA this was fairly common knowledge (intel guys knew), but some of that wasn't as common, or even shared at all in other US Army/Marine circles.

More later, since TMP is getting ready to snooze, soon.

Sorry, not really up to speed on the AGLs myself, so will watch with interest.

Generally, as of 1976, dismount norms are roughly 8 men per squad (not including the vehicle driver, or commander/gunner).

I've read in the 1980s that dropped to 7 dismounts, generally.

MG assistants all carry AKMs.

BTR squads supposedly have 1 x RPK MG each, but none in the 10th HQ vehicle, so 9 x total for the company.

BMP-1 squads also have 1 x RPK MG per squad, and again none in the HQ.

Later BMP squads supposedly have 2 x PKMs per squad, per the DIA booklet (1976), which seems high to me, but perhaps those that they are referring to are the BRM, or BRM-1s. I originally thought they were referring to the BMP-2 units, but those weren't fielded until the 1980s, so that probably isn't right.

Then again, perhaps it is, and/or they're referring to the BMP-1P, or they had advanced knowledge of what the BMP-2 units were going to field in the 1980s, since they mention 10 x BMPs having 20 x PKMs (in the DIA booklet date 1976), and all of the recon units have fewer BRMs than that in them.

Not sure, so would appreciate clarification on that.

6 x PKMs total, in the 2 x BMPs (3 x each) of the attached MG platoon.

2 or 3 x PKMs total, in the 2 x BTR MG/ATGM platoon, plus 3 x AT-7 Saxhorns (not sure when those were introduced, but Wiki says they were available from 1978) – this is from the FM100-2-3 book dated 1991, so could be in the 1980s as well. Not sure if they'd have Saggers, Snappers, Swatters, Spigots, Spandrels, or recoilless rifles before that. Probably one of the earlier ATGMs in the mid-1970s.

1 x RPG-7, or later variant per squad.

3 x SA-7s per company – some list them as all 3 in the HQ vehicle, but I think they might parcel them out to avoid all their SAMs being taken out in one catastrophic hit. I've read both.

Hope that helps.

Best regards,

Rob

Isbey's 'Weapons and Tactics of the Soviet Army' gives the AGS17 as being introduced in 1975.

sabresquadron.com

Mako 11 I remember that like the US The Soviets moved the Sa 7 ect to company or battalion hq to allow for traning and in the field they would move them to where they think they needed it.

Thanks for the clarification.

That makes more sense. I just can't see putting all your anti-air assets in one basket, so to speak, especially in modern warfare, which is so deadly, and where HQ vehicles, if they can be readily identified, will be targeted first, frequently.

Mako 11:
Thank you for the manuals and DIA documents you sent my way. Now I have tons of homework to do! Cheers.
Rod Robertson.

Only 11 years late, but I've been looking into this and found out that there were two AGS-17 per company according to this web site:

link

Better late than never!