"Patton and negro soldiers" Topic

"As the nation pauses to dedicate a new memorial to World War II veterans this Memorial Day weekend, the fog of amnesia about the accomplishments of black World War II heroes will hang over the occasion.

Serving with distinction, valor and honor was the easiest part of the war for black Americans in uniform – a fact too often forgotten by the history-challenged media and far too many politicians.

The hardest part was dealing with the open contempt of white commanding officers who denied them Purple Hearts and Bronze Stars, and the real danger of being lynched in uniform (as many were) when returning to America…"
From here
link

By the way, anybody have read this book?

link

If the answer is yes, comments please?

Thanks in advance for your guidance.

Amicalement
Armand

Interesting article, though it is slightly odd, after pointing out that US soldiers were segregated by the colour of their skin, to then complain that no black soldiers were depicted in the opening scene of SPR…

But you just told us that they were segregated! With that in mind, why then would Spielberg have depicted black soldiers in the Rangers or 29th Division?

I remember that there was a similar argument (no black soldiers depicted) re Letters From Iwo Jima.

Surely the lack of black soldiers highlights the racist policy of the time? To include a token black soldier in the cast would suggest that there was no racist segregation policy in force.

Jemima, the point is that many thousands of black soldiers served in these battles, mostly in segregated support units, some in experimental combat units, but are rarely seen in war movies. The article even gives specific examples:

"Now 82, Cranchall, a resident of Philadelphia, was a part of the historic June 1944 D-Day landing and invasion of Nazi-held France along with 120 African Americans of the all-black 427 Quartermaster Truck Battalion."

"Army Sgt. Edward Hicks of Washington, D.C., also landed on Omaha Beach in Normandy on D-Day as part of the 20th Anti-Aircraft Division. "

The first of the 'Montford Point' black marines to be killed in WWII was killed on the beach at Iwo Jima.

SPR and FooF had big casts with many extras filling out the scenes. It would have been accurate to show black soldiers playing their historical part in these operations.

When I was a boy…there were 'white' and 'colored' drinking fountains in a fancy apartment building just up the street from where I lived. I wasn't aware of it, but my friend John was. John's father had been an officer in WWII in an all-black artillery battalion. John and I would probably never have been friends, except for a robust public school system in my home town, now sadly decayed, and the Civil Rights movement of the early 1960s.

We have forgotten how far we have come in the United States from the stem-winding racism that insisted blacks and whites should not swim in the same pool or transfuse each others' blood. Maybe the amnesia is a blessing.

Weren't also black soldiers in the Bastogne siege?…

Agree that they were not shown in any movie up today!.

Seems that Patton was racist?

Amicalement
Armand

"Seems that Patton was racist?"

I wonder why he is singled out.

It was unfortunately inherent in the military culture of the time. Would not surprise me a bit to find out every single (star-wearing) military officer in every branch had used racist terms when referring to soldiers of color, or if less than 10% had. We'll never really know and at this point, does it really matter.

We have moved on, educated ourselves and learned from our past.

It was a much different world back then. Even though the Negro slaves were freed by the Civil War, they were still a long ways from being treated fairly.

True Zippy, though neither AA or transport units were featured in the scene depicted by SPR. The scene was very specifically Rangers and 29th Inf Div. To have included a black soldier within those units would have been suggesting that "Everything's ok, we weren't really institutionally racist".

If you want a real failure to depict anyone in SPR, where were the Royal Navy landing craft coxwains that took those units ashore?

Go read up on the 92nd Infantry division (Colored). Fought in the Italian theater and it's an eye opener of the costs of racism on the battlefield.

SPR featured some post-assault scenes of the beach-head. There was room for the director to include some black soldiers humping supplies, if he had thought about it.

By editing black US troops out of our current view of WWII, we continue and abet the racism of the 1940s.

Very true, though their appearance would be brief, in the background and fairly pointless. Perhaps there already are?

My thoughts were more relating to the main characters and units depicted – to depict a black soldier within a white unit would be suggesting that the US Army's institutional racism didn't exist.

Yes, including them in the later beach scene would have been a very important inclusion to provide context for our wartime policies.

The US did have some integrated combat units that saw active service, though I don't think they were actually involved in direct combat. If I ever find good models to build up a Bolt Action force of Seabees, it will be one of these battalions: link

The other day I saw "Fury" again… there are black soldiers there… a few seconds maybe… but they shown them and not only humping supplies…

Amicalement
Armand

Cheers miniMo, that was very interesting.

"120 African Americans of the all-black 427 Quartermaster Truck Battalion" – out of how many that landed?

2 full infantry divisions with support at Omaha alone. Roughly 14,000 troops landing (some units were kept off shore til following day). 120 guys would be a ratio of .00857.

And people are upset that that low number wasn't represented? What jugheads.

Also, applying 21st Century moral standards to a society 70, 80 or 200 years ago doesn't work. Never has never will. Judging people by what was accepted social behavior at the time as unacceptable in current times is a foolish position.

I dunno, some people 150 years ago thought slavery was just fine, others thought it was immoral.

Likewise for Jim Crow laws 70 years ago.

"120 African Americans…" would be a minimum number documented for one unit, not a total for the beachhead. But you just keep winding that stem any direction you like. Jughead yourself.

WW2 was all about race. The Nazis and Japanese each believed their race was better than everybody else, and in defeating them the rest of the world lost any credibility in saying that any other race was weaker. This translated to the Civil Rights movement in the 60's and desegregation, as well as undercutting the arguments in favor of the colonial system.

BTW, where's the new memorial?