"DBA 2.2 +" Topic

Hi all

Had a very nice game of DBA 2.2+
link below

link

I prefer DBA v3.0

Thanks for sharing regardless of which version.

I much prefer the 3.0 version.

I don't play either ruleset but it's always good to see AARs

Interesting report thanks…

I have tried three versions of DBA so far 2.2, 2.2+, and 3.0.

It would be interesting to hear what specific rule changes you guys prefer between 2.2, 2.2+ and 3.0?

Currently for 3:

1. Greater movement distances
2. New Movement to Contact rules (I can't play early versions anymore because of these)
3. Side support (improves Med., Dark Ages, and Classical)
4. Increased Bow range
5. Pike and Blade Pursuit
6. New terrain types (rough and plough)
7. Really cool Mtd. Infantry Longbows
8. Troop differentiation. I love Fast Warband.

This is for starters…

Joe Collins

Thanks Joe, I was actually curious about what the above posters liked better.

I was actually curious about what the above posters liked better.

Everything that Joe said!

LOL… I was interpreting "you guys" as the community in general.

Still, an interesting question for everyone.

Joe Collins

I will agree with Joe on everything except 6-8. Those three items did little to fix the game so I would lump under "window dressing." You will either like them or you won't. But they were not necessary changes.

The first 5 items were key to fixing many of the exploits from earlier versions. (Parade ground shuffle, kinked lines, unbalanced armies etc)

At a recent convention where 2.2 was dominant for years, they switched to 3.0
In the past they had five or more tournaments over the weekend with 2.2 and had many players.
This year with 3.0 there were only three tournaments and those had less than 4 guys each. A stark change from years past. My sales of figures for DBA were also almost non-existent.
So was quite surprised and never heard any bad comments about the rules. The interest was just not there this year.

Surprised at the lack of interest in DBA3 as it is a better game. Alas there have been some vocal people with a vested interest in 2.2 decrying it which may have had an impact.

Joker…

Dude:
Don't hate on my "Fast" Warband… they still lose… but now you do get to scare the jebus out of your opponent before you do!

Joe Collins

Dude:
Don't hate on my "Fast" Warband… they still lose… but now you do get to scare the jebus out of your opponent before you do!

LOL No hate intended. Just pointing out that the game would function correctly without them. Warband armies are still spectacular though. They win and lose in spectacular fashion!

Dba 3 has continued to sell in steady numbers ever since it came out and s by the far best selling rulebook I've stocked – even outselling Lasalle on preorders…

So someone is playing it…

Mike

Which version is 'better' is entirely a matter of personal taste despite any repeated insistence that their favorite is universally better for everybody.

Some people like 2.2 just fine as it is.

Some people like 2.2+ as a polished update of 2.2.

Some people like 3.0 as a pretty large re-thinking of the game.

Some people like more than one of those choices.

I've purchased 3.0. I've played a game. I might play more. It hurts my brain trying to parse a whole new set of Barkerese. I continue to prefer 2.2+.

Which version is 'better' is entirely a matter of personal taste despite any repeated insistence that their favorite is universally better for everybody.

I find that diffficult to understand when v3.0 has clearly fixed a lot of the problems with 2.2 and 2.2+.

If you follow your logic ("better the devil you know …"), then we should all still be playing v1!!

Yes its too bad a few die hard 2.2ers decided to slay 3.0. May have disuaded some casual players from trying though not in my area where 3.0 has helped revive interest.

It really is a much better game (and yes mostly for the first 4 items Joe mention, though the others add nice color). Ironically overall easier to play and less fiddly than 2.2. Much better rule presentation with diagrams etc.

A great version for 25mm – bigger bolder bader. This may account for the slippage in 15mm figure sales as many are putting together new 25mm armies. At Historicon I had more players in 25mm than 15mm tournaments. Big crowd for the Ice and Fire game on Saturday night in 25mm.

Another great sign is my in box filling up with more requests for D3H2 which combines HOTT and DBA 3.0. Great feedback (which does go right to my head – so keep it coming!)

TomT

LOL…

My poor Welsh!

The "Fast" rating does give them a much different feel… different tactics… but the same outcome!

We do a 6 player 1066 campaign… I always end up with them.

Joe Collins

Enjoyed your AAR and had a pleasant browse around your blog – thanks.

I find that diffficult to understand when v3.0 has clearly fixed a lot of the problems with 2.2 and 2.2+.

If you follow your logic ("better the devil you know …"), then we should all still be playing v1!!

MajorB,
What I was curious to hear about was what problems you thought it fixed I guess…

I have seen Joe's list of what he likes about 3.0 before.

I like the movement increase for some of the troops, but disappointed that there is really only 3 speed bands.

The dismounting bows are interesting, and I do like the added flavor in the army lists and some of the interesting changes there.

I noticed that the two people that chimed in on the AAR and simply said they liked 3.0 better were both from the UK, so I was just interested in getting your perspective on the changes.

The "Fast" rating does give them a much different feel… different tactics… but the same outcome!

You mean they speed to their doom?

What I was curious to hear about was what problems you thought it fixed I guess…

Previous versions of DBA were not very good for Dark Ages or Late Medieval. V3.0 seems to have fixed this and now Dark Ages shield walls work really well and so does late Medieval (e.g. WOTR). It's not one thing in particular (although side support certainly makes a sheld wall work properly as it never did before), but all the various changes seem to have produced a much more dynamic game that IMHO reflects the capabilities of the troops much more effectively. And the game is simply more fun!

Thanks for your comments….

"DBA 3 has continued to sell in steady numbers ever since it came out and s by the far best selling rulebook I've stocked – even outselling Lasalle on preorders…So someone is playing it…"

Here everyone has switched to DBA 3.0, from previous versions. I'm glad to hear your excellent service has resulted in additional sales for you. Certainly I have mentioned the great service I received from Black Hat.

With respect to the original post, glad you enjoyed your game. It's great to read of people playing games and thank you for taking the time to post a summary.

Joker:

Yes, nothing like flanking your opponent with two really good pip rolls… watching his panic… charging into his flank..
Then bouncing and getting destroyed.

Joe Collins

"A great version for 25mm – bigger bolder bader. This may account for the slippage in 15mm figure sales as many are putting together new 25mm armies."

More 25mm propaganda as I have come to expect from this poster.

DBA can be enjoyed in a range of scales and the recent changes to base width remove differences between scales. But let's not have the truth get in the way of some peoples crusades.

More 25mm propaganda as I have come to expect from this poster.

DBA can be enjoyed in a range of scales and the recent changes to base width remove differences between scales.

Isn't that the whole point though? "the recent changes to base width remove differences between scales" – making 25mm a scale that now works in DBA much better than it did before.

The poster always goes on about 25mm as if everything else is substandard. DBA can be enjoyed in a range of scales. It is tiring to read of the same party political broadcasts.

The original post was a 2.2 game with 15mm figures. It's great to see someone posting DBA reports without various posts which suggest the rules he used or the scale is somehow inferior. Each person has there own preferences.

I find that diffficult to understand when v3.0 has clearly fixed a lot of the problems with 2.2 and 2.2+.

It has also increased the complexity level of the game to some degree. For folks who do not mind that increase, then the changes may well be better for them. I have never enjoyed any of Phil Barker's other more complex games (6th edition, DBM, DBMM). There comes a point of increasing complexity in DBA that crosses that line. Where that point is will vary by each person's tastes.

If you follow your logic ("better the devil you know …"), then we should all still be playing v1!!

Not at all. By my logic, players who prefer v1 should (and some are) still playing that.

Not at all. By my logic, players who prefer v1 should (and some are) still playing that.

Indeed. Especially DBA 1.1. Not really sure why but I suspect because it is so uncomplicated.

The poster always goes on about 25mm as if everything else is substandard. DBA can be enjoyed in a range of scales. It is tiring to read of the same party political broadcasts.

I have never seen him say that sizes other than 25mm are "sub standard".

I find that diffficult to understand when v3.0 has clearly fixed a lot of the problems with 2.2 and 2.2+.

It has also increased the complexity level of the game to some degree.

On the contrary, I think that v3.0 has SIMPLIFIED the game to a considerable degree.

If you follow your logic ("better the devil you know …"), then we should all still be playing v1!!

Not at all. By my logic, players who prefer v1 should (and some are) still playing that.

Provided that players who stick to earlier versions have actually tried the later versions and found that they don't like them. I would consider someone who insists on playing an earlier version without having even tried the new version(s) to be somewhat short sighted.

Provided that players who stick to earlier versions have actually tried the later versions and found that they don't like them. I would consider someone who insists on playing an earlier version without having even tried the new version(s) to be somewhat short sighted.

Or perhaps they don't want to plunk down the money for a new set of rules if they are satisfied with an earlier version.

Or perhaps they don't want to plunk down the money for a new set of rules if they are satisfied with an earlier version.

Then read reviews and make your choice from that or find someone who alreday has them and play a trial game. But in any case you're only talking about dropping £20.00 GBP – not a lot of dosh in this day and age.

Saying that you like a certain scale is not propaganda as its certainly true for that person/group.

Contrary to the assumptions expressed, I do have and play with 15mm figures and have organized 15mm tournaments and played in many and more. I am the only person in my local group that has 15mm figures though so we generally play in 25mm.

Saying a system works well for a certain scale does not imply all other scales are inferior – 15mm devotees need not be so defensive about their chosen scale.

The larger movement rates and ranges of DBA 3.0 seem to give a better feel for 25mm games. So if you like 25mm (and if you don't this hardly needs concern you) but have always felt DBA was a 15mm game – my suggestion would be to give 3.0 a try.

My suggestion – as always – is to try it yourself and do not be overly concerned by negative postings.

TomT