"Organisation and basing conundrums - HELP!" Topic

I thought I was pretty well set until I did some blank testing today. I thought 24 man units, on six bases, each 40mm x 40mm would be the way to go. Now I'm not so sure. Please take a look at these pics and if you have something constructive to impart please do. I'm finding it difficult to come to a decision.

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Mine are 24 figure units as yours are (though I only game in 15mm and 6mm). I put two figures on a 20mm stand, 15mm deep. Thus my units have 12 stands. Using sheet magnet movement trays you end up moving an entire unit at a time, not multiple individual stands. I have the same flexibility with 6 stands PLUS I can break down in to 12 figure units for 1:50 games.

Given your considerations, why not just go with 6 stands, each of 33mm? Gives you the frontage and look of the 50mm stands, plus the flexibility of the 6-stand units?

What rules are you using?

Do the bases represent anything other than just part of the unit (1 base per company)?

What is the ground scale you are working with?

That is an option. I sometimes find that narrow stands get knocked about a bit (figure clash) more than wider stands, especially when moving lots of them about the place – I'm thinking games with perhaps 24+ units a side.

It is an option, though.

I play Black Powder and base all normal size units of 24 figures on 6 40mm x 40mm bases. My cavalry are on 50mm x 50mm bases but I only use 8 figure units (so 4 bases). If a unit is large then it's 32 figures on 8 bases and small is 16 figures on 4 bases. Skirmishers are based singularly on 20mm x 20mm bases. I then base all officer on round bases.

I feel your pain! I umm'd and arr'd about this for ages. Eventually I decided to use 28s for skirmish gaming and based them individually. Big battles I use 6mm figures.

That probably doesn't help you much, though!

I would probably go with the four base 'shoulder to shoulder' option. You can arrange them four bases wide for line, two by two for column, or in a square for, well, square.

Two by two works well for a column as they were wider and not as deep than a lot of people imagine!

I'll be using more than one set. Probably Piquet, Lassale and Black Powder though some house adjustments might be be made to allow games to work. I'll be collecting all the figures for both sides (I've already purchased the first thousand plus) so they don't need to fit in with anyone else's stuff.

I'm not a big believer in war game ground scale. Cavalry can traverse a mile in a little over 2 minutes, yet in a typical war game half hour move, they just go inches across the table. Also musket ranges, in most rules tend to be several times what they should be. I don't mind this, because it usually feels right and makes the game work.

Razor78s Black Powder set up seems fairly universal.

I would go with him.

Don't try and over-complicate your set up.

Just get more gaming done.

I like the four stand 50mm one in the middle. It looks right to me.
What formations do you need to represent that would be a challenge with four stands vs. six?

What formations do you need to represent that would be a challenge with four stands vs. six?

For no particular reason I thought:

1 wide column = column of route / march column.
2 wide column = column of companies.
3 wide column = attack column.

With four bases, the march column would be represented by leaving a gap between the bases.

Of course, my knowledge of Napoleonic formations is still very patchy, but six stands would allow for more easy to see 'column variation'. I'm probably over complicating things; most rules only seem to do 'line' and 'column'.

I always liked 28mm best on four 2" squares for 24 infantry.

IMHO, it looks so much better than the venerable 4 inf to a 40mm square.

Go with the 24 of 4 stands of 50 for now, to get games in ASAP- you can add 2 more stands once the collection is increased to make it to the your ultimate goal with the 6 stand unit of 36.
That is what I am in the process of doing.

Shoulder to shoulder looks less like skirmish screen so it looks better, as you already concluded.

MG

For British infantry I go for 24 figures (6x4)

This photo shows how I handle flank companies. Rather than a whole base of grenadiers, I have two to three figures representing the grenadier company. At the other end of the lime the same deal for the light company. Usually no more than five flank company figures per battalion.

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Cheers
Brian

I found 40mm square bases were just easier to handle. The larger 60mmx40mm with 6 figures was too heavy and cumbersome for me. The rules don't matter to me.

I decided on 4 figures on a 40x40 base myself. Tried a few different options but that seemed to be the best solution overall. I wanted to have 6 bases to match the French 6 company battalions and then worked from there, and 24 figure battalions is a far more realistic goal when doing both sides than 36.

Strictly speaking, from 1809 on, a french column of companies would be 6 companies deep while a column of divisions would be three divisions deep. But you likely know that already.

I use the classic basing of 36 figure units on 45mm by 40mm. Looks suitably shoulder to shoulder and menacing.

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I believe what you are doing is exactly right.

40x40mm bases are quite common. 24 figures per unit are quite common. Four figures per base is best as most of the quoted rulesets would favour 4-6 units per unit. I know Lasalle and Field of Battle have 4 base units, but for a lot of sets 6 base units is preferred.

As an aside though I think you could get away with 40x45 mm bases if you wanted a bit more depth to deal with firing line figures.

I did the same base size but with 6x28mm figures per base, it was a mistake and now I am looking at re-basing 2700 figures!

John

I think you are over complicating the use of columns; with 24 figures battalions, isn't it going to be wrong no matter how you slice it?

Our group went with a 30mm x 40mm stand (30mm frontage).

We thought the tighter formations looked better.

Same as raylev3 for the same reasons plus the smaller footprint for the units.

Standard Peter Gilder basing 15mm frontage, 20mm deep. I understand that modern pumpkin head figures may need 20mm frontage for them to fit.

I like a French battalion of 6 bases of 6 figures, but if you like 24 then go for 4 figures to a base if that works for you. Personally, I grew up with 36 figure battalions as the standard, and so they "look right" to me. I never really accepted WRG's 12 man battalions, and 24 figures of the 1:33 brigade.

But this is a visual hobby, so if you find a "look" that works for you and your mates, then that is the one to plump for

Thanks guys, it seems to be coming down to the four or six stand conundrum, which is where I started. At least no one has said 4 stands of 8 for 32 man units, I suppose.

Although I pictured a British unit, the French 6 coy structure is another reason why 6 stands makes sense. Although I know that Brits had a 10 coy structure, I still purchased 4 grenadiers and 4 lights per regiment (for planned 24s).

As an aside, and I may repeat this question elsewhere for a more direct answer to a particular: in Black Powder games, do people actually take away flank stands when forming 'mixed' formations, or do they substitute more 'skirmishy' figures? I bought extra skirmish figures so this is not a problem either way, but given the rulings on 'mixed formation' I thought it makes no difference if extra separate skirmishers are thrown out in front (rather than removing flank stands) to represent the formation and in practice this might be far easier. Having never played BP I don't know, it's just a veteran's guess.

Again, thank you for your advice and input. I'm an old lag when it comes to this hobby, but every period throws up lots of basic issues – never go it alone, in the darkening gloom you need the shadow to be that of a friend.

Ah, I do use 4 stands of 8 for my 32 figure allied/Young Guard. But I also use 5 stands of 6 for my 1806 Prussians. I guess I use everything (I plan to use 4 stands o 8, plus two half stands of 4 each, to make my 40 strong Brits, with the half stands being the two flank companies). 24 figure Brits feel quite small for my tastes…

And BP,I use the integral skirmishes (sometimes) – often I find them fiddly and just use the light infantry regiments en masses instead.

But additional skirmish bases would work just as well, and would keep your units looking "neat". If find that, once the game gets underway, people are more concerned with getting stuff into battle than "dressing the lines"

people are more concerned with getting stuff into battle than "dressing the lines" grin

My thoughts exactly. You need space to replace the 'skirmishing third' so you might as well just say these additional figures are virtual. Neat units always speed and simplify play.

Go for individual figure basing as it will provide you with a lot of flexibility for differing rule sets and different national formation imperatives.

I do. I use GdeB and all my figures are individually based on 20mm square thin metal bases and then placed on company or battalion unit magnetic bases for formation flexibility.

I believe this works well for Corps, Division and Brigade level games where the basic unit is a battalion and the figures are 20:1 ratio.

So, my light companies can be part of the battalion or part of a brigade skirmish screen on magnetic skirmish strips double spaced and suitably flocked.

Similarly, I can place my figures on a magnetic unit base in the open order formation.

So again some extra effort to base individually but well worth the effort in terms of flexibility.

How is everyone basing their British infantry?

Hi

'How is everyone basing their British infantry?'

It seems that many people simply base British on the same frontage as everything else – not particularly accurate as a representative footprint of how they deployed in line, but I would be the first to admit to struggling with having a (typical?) 36 figure British battalion based up on a 33% wider frontage with the same amount of figures.

I have 40 figures, in two ranks, so that when in line they occupy more space than a French battalion. But, TBH, it is all just a visual representation anyway. BP does not use head count, so that helps – I don't have to worry about frontages compared to head count, and start messing around with changing base sizes etc. And 40 figures, luckily, splits nicely into a 10 company organisation.

It's just a game, and with bigger figures, it is more representative. Ground scale is out most times anyway, so I go for what looks ok

British battalions deployed with the same distance between men as everyone else so they should occupy the same frontage per man in the front rank – having the figures spaced futher apart is very strange and gives a misleading impression.
Obviously the British (mostly) deployed in 2 ranks rather than three – but that doesn't change the spacing of the men in the front rank!
Once you get away from the idea that each figure represents so many men, then you can just base them so they look good.
My 28mm Napoleonics are all on 40mm square bases – 4 infantry or 2 cavalry. I also agonised over whether to use 30mm wide bases for infantry, but decided on the extr width for easy of handling; it also helps protect the figures.

It seems that many people simply base British on the same frontage as everything else – not particularly accurate as a representative footprint of how they deployed in line,

The British deployed in line in 2 ranks rather than 3 but by and large individual battalions were smaller than their opponents so that a battalion frontage was roughly the same (~160 yds).