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"Rules & Internet Support" Topic


47 Posts

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Action Log

22 Jun 2016 5:21 p.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

  • Removed from TMP Poll Suggestions board
  • Crossposted to Websites for Wargaming board
  • Crossposted to Discussion Groups and Wargaming Forums board


1,153 hits since 6 Oct 2015
©1994-2017 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian07 Oct 2015 10:24 a.m. PST

How important is it to you that a ruleset have online support (a website, forum, battle reports, downloads, and so forth)?

Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP07 Oct 2015 10:31 a.m. PST

Not at all.

Personal logo John Treadaway Supporting Member of TMP07 Oct 2015 10:34 a.m. PST

It's important to me (from a providers point of view) because I find it useful when I game other folks systems.

John T

Cerdic Supporting Member of TMP07 Oct 2015 10:35 a.m. PST

We manged well enough in the old days before the Internet…

Allen5707 Oct 2015 10:39 a.m. PST

Not important although I have used on-line support a couple times.

Mark RedLinePS07 Oct 2015 10:40 a.m. PST

Most rules today are, dare I say, rather badly written, so a forum with
Q+As is a great help. It's also useful to get other players feed back on the rules and any tweeks and house rules they use to improve the game.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP07 Oct 2015 10:41 a.m. PST

None whatsoever. You can bet the house that Flames of Liberty will have none of that frippery and flapdoodle.

Personal logo Saber6 Supporting Member of TMP Fezian07 Oct 2015 10:44 a.m. PST

Beats a SSAE

Terrement Supporting Member of TMP07 Oct 2015 10:49 a.m. PST

DELETED

Sundance07 Oct 2015 11:06 a.m. PST

Not terribly important, but with Lion Rampant I did find online support useful – not for rules issues, but for fan house rules to handle things the rules didn't cover, army lists for compatible time periods, etc.

Steve07 Oct 2015 11:09 a.m. PST

I think it's important and will impact whether I buy a ruleset. As an aside, I don't find rules today any more poorly written than in the past.

olicana07 Oct 2015 11:10 a.m. PST

Not that important to me. They are good for swapping ideas on scenarios, OOBs, etc. and things not actually in the rules.

Personal logo herkybird Supporting Member of TMP07 Oct 2015 11:17 a.m. PST

Can be good, but necessary, no!

vtsaogames07 Oct 2015 11:46 a.m. PST

Not a must but certainly a plus.

Personal logo Ditto Tango 2 3 Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member07 Oct 2015 11:52 a.m. PST

DELETED

Who asked this joker07 Oct 2015 12:02 p.m. PST

Somewhat important. I enjoy talking about the systems and it is a way to get a much better understanding of how a game works BEFORE you buy. Also, like Terrement, it is a way to get questions answered quickly.

wrgmr107 Oct 2015 12:22 p.m. PST

Thirds for what Terrement said.

advocate07 Oct 2015 12:34 p.m. PST

It helps. I've enjoyed the support available from the TooFatLardies community; and for Sword & Spear.

On the other hand, our group has adopted Tercios with little or no contact with that community (though we know it's there).

normsmith Inactive Member07 Oct 2015 12:37 p.m. PST

Like many here, I am from a generation that pre-internet meant you either had to work it out yourself or wait weeks or months for a reply from the designer that was based on a simple yes / no question.

That is how it was and we didn't know anything different. Fast forward 25 years and more and I think the inter-relationship between the designer and the buyer / gamer that exists now benefits both those parties though it might generate some lazy questioning and it might have generated an expectation that when a question is asked, a designer will get back within 12 hours.

It certainly allows errata and updated files or stats to be made available with easy access, which is another force for good.

redmist112207 Oct 2015 12:42 p.m. PST

I look at rule sets like this, any external support beyond the cover of the rules is a bonus. With that being said, I cannot see the internet support or similar to influence myself to buy or not to buy a rule set…that is simply ridiculous. I do like the fact if I happen to have a question, how fast I get an answer using the internet.

P.

nazrat07 Oct 2015 12:42 p.m. PST

All my most-played rules have incredible online resources. Those that don't are missing the bus and have generally lost sales to me. If you don't care enough about your product to support it why should I?

Personal logo Sgt Slag Supporting Member of TMP07 Oct 2015 12:47 p.m. PST

Not important for me, as I can figure it out on my own. However, e-mail is expected, and this allows direct access to the designer (or it should…), so questions can be asked, and answers expected in a timely manner -- within five business days, for example. Wanting an answer within 12 hours is ludicrous, IMO. Cheers!

Dynaman878907 Oct 2015 1:01 p.m. PST

Will not buy rules without it.

MajorB07 Oct 2015 1:16 p.m. PST

"Internet support" is totally unnecessary.

Personal logo David Manley Supporting Member of TMP07 Oct 2015 1:17 p.m. PST

Not important at all.

moonfleetminis Sponsoring Member of TMP07 Oct 2015 1:33 p.m. PST

Not important at all.

One of the reasons i have stopped playing Dystopian wars is because it is now a living rulebook :( which is a shame because i really liked it.

KTravlos Supporting Member of TMP07 Oct 2015 1:37 p.m. PST

Important for me. Especially a good set of historical scenarios is a must nowadays that I am caught up in the grand tactical bug.

I will buy rules that do not have online support, but I appreciate the companies or creators that take that next step in customer service.

Crow Bait07 Oct 2015 1:41 p.m. PST

To my knowledge, Neil Thomas does not support One Hour Wargames or Ancient and Medeival Wargames on the internet, but it does have a Yahoo group with an amazing fan base full of ideas and suggestions that have been very helpful to me. So, the actual author, not that important, access to the fan base for the rules, very very useful.

raylev307 Oct 2015 1:49 p.m. PST

I like having it there as a resource if needed, but not critical.

Having said that, depending you who you're playing with, having the author claify his rules can make it easier to sort through muddy areas of the rules.

kyoteblue Inactive Member07 Oct 2015 2:54 p.m. PST

DELETED

IronDuke596 Supporting Member of TMP07 Oct 2015 2:59 p.m. PST

Most important.

Personal logo jeffreyw3 Supporting Member of TMP07 Oct 2015 5:17 p.m. PST

A must.

coopman07 Oct 2015 5:36 p.m. PST

If you can find a rules set that you have no questions about, then a web presence is not important. Hint: that perfect rules set doesn't exist.

Personal logo Weasel Supporting Member of TMP07 Oct 2015 5:59 p.m. PST

Personally?

Expectation.

People buy into a community and a relationship as much as anything else.

(Phil Dutre) Inactive Member07 Oct 2015 10:48 p.m. PST

Not an issue at all.

warwell08 Oct 2015 1:51 a.m. PST

Not important at all. If the rules themselves are not clear enough to understand on their own, I'm not going to waste my time trying to figure them out.

JSchutt08 Oct 2015 3:01 a.m. PST

While we may not care…. and blithely make reference to the "old days" with legacy thinking…. just remember being young and what you would have thought of such remarks.

In the age of social media companies that choose not to connect to their younger or "with it" customers are doomed (Games Workshop). The current generation will just walk away thinking no one cares.

We are not the source of future revenues manufactures need to make to stay alive in small markets. Current manufacturers need to recognize this fact and if they don't have one now, get their grandkids to get them with the "now" and build them a Facebook page.

As my long dead mother used to tell others as old as she was at the time… "Don't be an old fart!"

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP08 Oct 2015 6:48 a.m. PST

A lot of things that we now consider bad ideas were once up and coming, hip ideas. Not that I eschew the idea of Internet support, I just don't buy into that rationale.

INLGames doesn't have a big "Internet support" branch. Everyplace we push info (Internet or not) we make contact info available and check back within reason (if we posted a news article on a bulletin board in a shop somewhere four years ago and you just wrote on it yesterday, we may not be on top of that) to reply.

Running and managing a forum for our website was too much effort to keep the usual (Internet) suspects from drowning out the relevant info. We have a Facebook page and regularly publish to, make contact info available, and respond to posts from there.

Who asked this joker08 Oct 2015 10:24 a.m. PST

I think JShutt brings up a very good point, especially in light of the poll on how old we TMP'rs are. You probably noted that the age range really started at 40 years and older with just a smattering in the lower brackets. TMP link Now, that may be just a TMP thing. Maybe TMP is just not hip anymore but the old fuddy duddies still use it. Or it could mean that our hobby really is graying.

Whatever the case, one would think that they would want to reach a younger audience through means that audience understands.

Rallynow Supporting Member of TMP08 Oct 2015 2:55 p.m. PST

It's important. It helps to have some rules clarification. But just having a discussion form isn't enough. I don't care what others opinions are about a rule, I want to talk to the guy who wrote the rules.

The lazy rules author/designer leave it too the forms to answer any rules issue. I like the ones who are active and will even share their email address so you can contact them directly.

Other than rules questions on a form. I rules need to be supported with scenario books. I don't mean the endless modules of some rules. But the occasional scenario book is nice.

Shardik Inactive Member09 Oct 2015 1:18 a.m. PST

Fairly important. Almost all rulesets need some clarification, and some rulesets are written so badly that they need extensive clarification. *cough* Age of Might and Steel *cough*

MajorB09 Oct 2015 5:06 a.m. PST

I don't care what others opinions are about a rule, I want to talk to the guy who wrote the rules.

Almost all rulesets need some clarification, and some rulesets are written so badly that they need extensive clarification.

Well in the "old days" we'd just write a letter and send it via the publishers. I suppose all that's needed nowadays is a contact email address?

Who asked this joker09 Oct 2015 5:24 a.m. PST

Well in the "old days" we'd just write a letter and send it via the publishers.

If you want to contact Neil Thomas, that's still how it is done!

Disco Joe Inactive Member09 Oct 2015 2:21 p.m. PST

Not important at all.

(Phil Dutre) Inactive Member10 Oct 2015 2:26 a.m. PST

I guess answers range from "Not important at all" to "A must".

But it really depends on what is meant under the term "internet support".

Of course it is nice to have some kind of forum or website devoted to a game, such that as a player, you have the feeling that you are belonging to a wider community, and such that you can discuss the game with others. But that will always exist, whether the original publisher sets this up himself or not.

However, that does not imply the original game designer should be available at all times to answer rules questions or pump out new material. Sure, that would be nice, and perhaps smart to do from a marketing point-of-view if the ruleset is a big commercial release. But why would people expect that when the ruleset is a small hobby publication? There is a big difference between "answering a few questions now and then" and "having a permanent internet rep at all times".

SGThorne Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member23 Dec 2015 7:32 a.m. PST

This depends entirely on the size of the publishing operation. In house publications like Battlefront bring a ton of resources to their games: free pdf downloads, painting articles, Q&A sections, etc. GW has only used the interwebs to market their product IMHO. Small publications most likely will not have any online presence, which is a shame as it IS a door to building a community. When I started in this hobby I lived in a small town in West Texas. The next town was over 50 miles away. I was 12 years-old and mowing lawns for Avalon Hill, SPI games and Ral Partha lead. The Manager of the toy/hobby store set up a cork board where players could post name/phone number and games for players to contact one another. Smart man. We could have purchased direct through Mail or magazine; but many ordered through the manager, and his store did rather well.

When I read or hear that it isn't needed, never was needed in the old days, or is not a substitute for the good old post what's translated is 'I'm not used to the internet'. Or, 'Change frightens and confuses me.'

What are we made of? Lead or plastic? I say, get a grip and grow a pair of six sided worthy of your hobby. Smart miniature's producers have sound and informative web sites: Look at the Perry's site as example. Game publisher can do the same with a smartly crafted web site, and even avoid having to handle the deluge of postage they must daily sort through…..

Whether you can accept it or not, our community has the potential to grow through the inter tubes. Smart publishers will craft opportunities for the players of their rules sets to exchange ideas and build a sense of community and excitement about their product. It's not an 'either this or that' argument, which I flat out reject.

USAFpilot11 Jan 2016 12:33 p.m. PST

It depends. Some rules need it more than others. If I have a question about the rules the first thing I will do is see if there is any type of online support Q&A.

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