"Cavalry in WW2" Topic

Probably a very stupid question, but please bear with me.

I believe I am correct in saying that the Poles, Germans, Soviets and Italians (among others, no doubt) fielded cavalry in WW2.

But what were they armed with? Were they simply mounted-riflemen, or did some / all carry sabres / lances?

I imagine that the Poles / Soviets used (or were, at least, equipped with) steel weapons, but what about the German cavalry?

Did any other nations deploy cavalry equipped with cold steel? The Japanese for example?

Any specific examples and references would be really appreciated.

Think Dragoon rather than cavalry.

They mostly used the horses like you would lorries.
Ride up to safe distance from enemy.
Dismount and act as infantry.

Not so much with the glorious charge of the light brigade stuff. Although some did have sabres and no doubt used them occasionally.

I'm doing this from memory so I am sure someone with actual knowledge will show up and contradict most of it.

German cavalry carried sabers until 1942 (I think). Soviet cavalry carried sabers throughout the war and so did the Japanese (I think). Polish cavalry carried sabers and some units, but not all, also had lances.

I'm not sure about the Italians (the Savoia regiment did carry sabers for their charge in 1942) or the British (yes, the British had mounted troops 1939-40). At least some Imperial Service troops from India still carried lances in 1944.

American cavalry were armed with M-1 Garands and M-1911A1 .45 caliber pistols and no longer carried sabers.

LT

Elements of the 3rd Gwalior Lancers and Jodhpur Lancers (both 'Indian States Forces' regiments – i.e. semi-independent principality troops seconded to the Indian Army) are recorded as having made a 'charge' in the Arakan in 1944, while attempting to break into the 'Admin Box'. However, I've been completely unable to determine what equipment/weapons they had and the 'charge' could equally be described as a 'dash' for safety, rather than a 'charge' to engage the enemy.

Some Japanese cavalry/recce units in Burma are recorded as having sabres during the invasion of 1942. However, they converted to motorised transport as soon as they could capture it off the British/Indian Army! There were also Japanese Mounted Infantry units that did not have sabres.

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Soviet Cossacks had lances too

The first few battles between the Soviers and Japanese nvoled Mongolian cavalry armed with lances and rifles.
I am not sure if the Manchuko troops had lances for the Japanese.
The Ethiopian forces had mostly infantry but detachments of cavalry were in the forces.

In China, they used cavalry in the 1930s and into the 1940s. I will check other order of battles

Actual Cavalry had weapons for use from horseback so sabres or lances. Mounted troops without such weapons were "light horse" or "Mounted infantry".

The French had quite a lot of cavalry in 1940 that were straight in the path of the german attack through the Ardennes so mostly fought delaying actions.

Pre-war German cav were issued sabres and some still had them during Barbarossa. The Hungarian, Romanian and Italian cav also had sabres while in Russia. A few Italians even charged with them drawn in 1942. Cossack cav carried them throughout the war.

Actual Cavalry had weapons for use from horseback so sabres or lances. Mounted troops without such weapons were "light horse" or "Mounted infantry".

US cavalry as early as 1916 dropped the saber in favor of the .45 caliber automatic pistol. They were still capable of fighting from horseback and of making a mounted charge, as witness the various mounted units involved in Pershing's expedition and the 26th in 1942. I believe they would still be classified as cavalry.

The French had quite a lot of cavalry in 1940 that were straight in the path of the German attack through the Ardennes so mostly fought delaying actions.

The French had six cavalry divisions (DLCs) in 1940, five in France and one in North Africa. Strangely enough, the Cavalry Corps that was part of the French 1st Army was entirely mechanized; the DLCs were in the 2nd, 3rd and 9th Armies, of which the 2nd and 9th were part of the French 1st Army Group in Belgium.

Further south, the student body and faculty of the French cavalry school contested the Loire River crossing at Saumur with the German 1st Cavalry Division but there was no mounted combat; the cadets' horses had been sent west to get them away from the Germans and the German 1st Cavalry's motorized units (mostly from the divisional reconnaissance battalion) forced the river crossing before the mounted regiments arrived.

LT

Sir John Frost recorded that in one battle in Tunisia he (2 Para) was supported on his flanks by two squadrons of French colonial cavalry – one on each flank. IIRC, these were from the Spahis Marocains and the Chasseurs d'Afrique. One squadron was apparently equipped for mounted action, though the other was purely equipped as mounted infantry.

Last "official" mounted charge by the US Cavalry was 26 Jan 1942 in the Philippines. Troopers from 26th US Cavalry led by 1LT Ramsey pulled pistols and charged Japanese Infantry.

The US Cavalry dropped the saber in 1934.

link

I am a member of a mounted 20th century US Cavalry reenacting group in the USA

Check out our 26th Cav FB page…

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SFC Retired

Thanks to all – some very interesting posts.

American Cavalry traded their sabers for pistols and carried either a 1903 Springfield or M-1 Garand.

The Last Charge – Morong Bataan, Jan. 16, 1942, 26th U.S. Cavalry.

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The French DLC's were also joined by another cavalry brigade and 3 Spahi brigades as well as the detached GRDi of several divisions. I was a LOT of cavalry.

So US Cavalry had pistols instead of sabres. Thus they were equipped with a weapon for using while mounted that they wouldn't have had if they were infantry, thus they were cavalry rather than mounted infantry.

eg the WW1 Australian light horse were NOT cavalry as they were not issued with a specific weapon for use while mounted. This didn't stop them from successfully charging the Turks at Bersheeba, waving their bayonets around instead.

U.S. Army Horse Cavalry Rifle Troop 1944
• Troop Headquarters
o HQ
 Troop Commander (Captain) pistol
 1st Sergeant pistol
 Stable Staff Sergeant pistol
 Bugler (Private) pistol
 Intelligence Scout (Private) rifle and pistol
 Clerk (Corporal) rifle and pistol
 Orderly (Private) rifle and pistol
o Troop Train
 Three Horsesholders, one with pack horse (Privates) rifles and pistols
 Saddler with pack horse (Private) rifle and pistol
 Two Pack drivers with pack horses for ammunition (Privates) rifles and pistols
o Kitchen Section
 Mess Sergeant rifle and pistol
 Three Cooks, one in wagon (Privates) rifles and pistols
 Wagoner with four horses and wagon (Private)
 Two Pack drivers with pack horses (Privates) rifles and pistols
 Two Cook Helpers with pack horses (Privates) rifles and pistols
• Three Rifle Platoons
o Platoon Headquarters
 Platoon Leader (Second Lieutenant) pistol
 Platoon Sergeant (Staff Sergeant) rifle and pistol
 Two Intelligence Scouts (Privates) rifles and pistols
 File Closer Sergeant rifle and pistol
 Three Basic Riflemen (Privates) rifles and pistols
o Three Rifle Squads
 Squad Leader (Corporal) rifle and pistol
 Two Riflemen (Privates) rifles and pistols
 Two Horseholders (Privates) rifles and pistols
 Two Scouts (Privates) rifles and pistols
 Second-in-command (Private) rifle and pistol
• Machine Gun Platoon
o Platoon Headquarters
 Platoon Leader (Second Lieutenant) pistol
 Platoon Sergeant (Staff Sergeant) rifle and pistol
 Two Intelligence Scouts (Privates) rifles and pistols
 File Closer Sergeant rifle and pistol
 Three Basic Riflemen (Privates) rifles and pistols
o Light Machine Gun Section
 Section Leader (Sergeant) pistol
 Two Light Machine Gun Squads
 Squad Leader (Corporal) pistol
 Three Pack drivers with pack horses, two for one LMG each and one for ammunition (Privates) rifles and pistols
 Two Gunners for LMGs (Privates) pistols
 Two Assistant Gunners (Privates) pistols
o .50 Machine Gun Section
 Section Leader (Sergeant) pistol
 Two .50 Machine Gun Squads
 Squad Leader (Corporal) pistol
 Three Pack drivers with pack horses, two for ammunition and one for .50 MG (Privates) rifles and pistols
 Gunner for .50 MG (Private) pistol
 Two Assistant Gunners (Privates) pistols
 Ammunition Carrier (Private) pistol

Just reading about the large number of mounted units on both sides during the 1941 battle for Syria. In the center sector several Australian units comprised their own mounted patrols for a few weeks.

Rudy,

Yes indeed. There was also the entire British 4th Cavalry Brigade (plus elements of the 1st Cavalry Division, which was on garrison duty in Palestine).

The conversation brings to mind a question I have regarding my own knowledge of WW2 operations.

Horses can swim. When laden their abilities are limited, but they can cover short distances in water with a man on their backs. In 19th century accounts light cavalry units have crossed rivers that were not fordable to foot soldiers.

I know that the Soviets used cavalry units for mobility in areas of difficult terrain. Cavalry units were considered particularly useful in swampy areas.

But … has anyone seen / read / heard of any specific operation or occasion when a cavalry formation was used as part of a river crossing or even large stream crossing? In combat or in an out-of-combat maneuver, I would be interested if anyone knows an account of cavalry being used to cross a water obstacle in WW2.

-Mark
(aka: Mk 1)

In Syria, anybody acted as mounted infantry .
The last allied cavalry charges in middle east/ africa seem's to have been those of the Free French Moroccan Spahis at Umbrega and Omager in January 1941 …

I could swear somebody had mentioned the 11th Cavalry at Ojos Azules in 1916 as the "last saber-swinging charge" by US cavalry. Actually, the 11th charged with pistols, like every other cavalry unit that executed a mounted charge during Pershing's pursuit of Pancho Villa.

LT

Just out of pure -ness…

YouTube link

Chinese PLA cavalry charge in an exercise using AKs and swords

In 1964

JUST AFTER THEY SET OFF AN ATOMIC BOMB!!

The 3 & 4 cavalry brigades formed by the germans on the eastern front in 1943 used horses solely as transportation. Along with the 1st ski brigade, they were the first units to be issued fully with assualt rifles.

@Rallynow: Do you have any idea where mortars or artillery would show up in a US Army Horse Cavalry unit? As best as I've been able to find, the Horse Cavalry squadron was just an HQ unit, no organic mortars, artillery, or even AT guns.

I would have expected mortars or pack howitzers as part of the Squadron.

In 1940, there was a regimental special weapons troop that included two heavy machinegun platoons of two sections, each of two 8-man squads with a single .50 caliber machinegun per squad and an 81mm mortar platoon with one section of two 8-man squads, each with a single 81mm mortar. There were also mortars assigned at brigade and division level, the squads usually being part of the HQ troop.

Artillery was held at division level and consisted of 2 horse-drawn 75mm howitzer battalions each with three 4-gun batteries and one truck-drawn 105mm howitzer battalion organized (I think) the same way.

Take a look at link and download documents 940UQAA to 940UQBT, which cover most cavalry divisional units in 1940. It's also a good idea to download their "reading aid", a PDF that contains live links to the entire collection.

Hope this helps.

LT