"Hastings Flemish and Bretons;how dif from normans? " Topic

hey guys! i'm gearing up for my own Hasting scenario and i have a question:

the original battle plan for the Normans had Bretons on the left, Normans in the middle, and Flemish on the right. how different would the Bretons and Flemish be from the Normans by their appearance? or basically would they all look fairly similar (conical helms and kite shields)?

Similar I'd say.

You might want to make the Bretons more Celtic in appearance. Round shields and triskelion patterns. A strong black and white influence on their design too.

Some believe the Bretons fought in a light cavalry style with javelins, you can see this discussion from an earlier TMP post:
TMP link

There is good Carolingian evidence for the Bretons fighting as light javelin cavalry, but none from the 11th century; so the style may not have survived the Viking conquest of the 920s and the reconstitution of a smaller Breton duchy by Alain Barbetorte in 936, which seems to have been a more Norman-style feudal state than its predecessor. FWIW, the only identifiably Breton figures on the Bayeux Tapestry, the defenders of Dinan, are shown as identical to Normans – link

FWIW, the Bretons seem to have been only a part of the left wing, which was probably commanded by the Poitevin Aimery de Thouars, and the Flemings only part of the right.

Is it me or did discussions on TMP used to be more erudite?

GurKhan nailed it.

ack, just noticed my original post was cut off, that's what i get for cutting and pasting in a hurry…

anyway, I'm planning on doing Hasting using Hail Ceasar (for now) and my Norman collection is taking shape. I was aware of the stuff mentioned earlier; that Bretons were more known for Javilens, etc..

actually i'm making my own HC lists as the official HC guide has Normans armed with Lances, which is incorrect, and probably just there for the -1 morale effect. in any case it will be easy to make Norman knights different from Bretons by adjusting the stats and special rules.

I was just wondering how different in looks the other contingents would be, as it will affect future miniature purchases. It will be much easier to continue to buy Norman miniatures and use small stylistic differences to make some units look different enough to be IDed as Breton or Flemish. looks like that can be the plan.

thanks for the input everyone.

It does seem that everyone at the time used pretty much the same type of kit.

Differences are more likely to be in the style of the decorations….

….possibly beards, longer hair and moustaches for the non Norman elements. William deliberately encouraged the idea of facial hair as ungodly amongst Normans. No real evidence that this idea caught on generally

Call them what you wish, nobody will likely ever challenge you on it.

I'd say the Flemish were nearly indistinguishable from the Normans.
William was married to Mathilde, daughter of Baldwin V count of Flanders and both families were heavily intertwined.
At that time Flanders was one of the most powerful nations in Northern Europe stretching from deep into the Netherlands to Boulogne in France.

Clean-shaven was also the norm at Flemish courts, so alas no beards and few moustaches. Long hair definitely a possibility but under a hauberk nothing much will show.

The Flemish heavy infantry was quite well- known and MIGHT have looked a bit different from your standard Norman foot- soldier. Mounted knights or those on foot would be almost exact copies but the lower ranking Flemish men- at- arm could have been better equipped than their Norman counterparts. Heavier amour, especially heavier and somewhat larger helmets.

Perhaps a colour differentiation? Many early 11th C Flemish illustrations show a pre- dominance of pale yellow (cream?) and green.

yes, that's the idea is just some differing paint schemes. it honestly won't be too much of a problem even if they are very similar in colors bc that will also make the force look good.

maybe different type flags as well.