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"Inspiration for Dutch mercenaries" Topic


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Gunfreak Supporting Member of TMP06 Oct 2015 7:20 a.m. PST

So I'm playing with the idea of making a mercenary force, that can be used for any and all sides for my fudeal forces.

I'm thinknig the force is a couple of mounted sergants, and some foot.

But I need some theme for this "division" I'm thinking the merc force will be dutch, I know they were used in England and probebly other places. Any dutch heraldry that could work?

GurKhan06 Oct 2015 7:50 a.m. PST

You're probably looking at Flanders or Brabant rather than anything that would be considered "Dutch".

For heraldry, have a look at earlyblazon.com or link

Druzhina06 Oct 2015 8:07 p.m. PST
Gunfreak Supporting Member of TMP07 Oct 2015 7:24 a.m. PST

Early to mid 13th

GurKhan07 Oct 2015 9:02 a.m. PST

So yes, you're mainly looking at men from Flanders and Brabant – link – "Gerard de Sotteghem, one of John's Flemish mercenary captains, and Walter le Buck, a Brabantine mercenary captain…"

"Sotteghem" seems to be a variant spelling of "Zottegem", and _if_ the captain's arms are the same as those of the town of the same name, that would be a nice simple coat for the period, azure a lion or – zottegem.be

Gunfreak Supporting Member of TMP07 Oct 2015 9:33 a.m. PST

Thanks, should i go into questinal history? And give all his knights and serjeant azure surcoates?

uglyfatbloke07 Oct 2015 9:48 a.m. PST

If the situation was 'as per' England or Scotland, the knights (and others so entitled) would bear their own devices as a matter of personal status; surcoats might be a different matter.

GurKhan07 Oct 2015 10:54 a.m. PST

To quote Ian Heath:
"After heraldry came in sergeants as well as household knights sometimes carried their lord's device on their shield, lance-pennon and surcoat (see, for example, illustrations in Pietro da Eboli's late-12th century 'Carmen de Rebus Siculis', where groups of horsemen all have the same device on shields and helmets; see also page 133). The surcoats themselves may even have been of a uniform colour within retinue, the instance of an English outlaw in 1218 buying 100 marks' worth of cloth for his band 'as if he had been a baron or an earl' often being quoted as early evidence for this practice."

So you could certainly justify giving everyone blue surcoats, made from the same batch of cloth.

Gunfreak Supporting Member of TMP07 Oct 2015 12:01 p.m. PST

Thank you azure (or any light blue i can get to look azure it is)

GurKhan07 Oct 2015 1:41 p.m. PST

Not too light – heraldically, "azure" is any blue. The town website uses a lightish blue, but that needn't have ben the case in the 13th cent.

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