"How often were shields dropped as a result of a sword blow?" Topic

I am looking for some historical data on shield usage; specifically, how often would a blow to a shield cause the user to drop it?

I am focused on the AD 100-200 era in relation to Roman soldiers and gladiators (well, okay, I'm working on a gladiator game) – was it not uncommon to block a heavy blow with a shield and have it knocked away? I imagine as you tired it would become more common.

Also, scutum vs parmula? Any significant differences in use?

Wasn't the gladius more like of a thrust weapon? Isn't that why, because of the reduced frontage, almost every Celt would be swinging his sword in wide arcs but end up facing two Romans directly in front of him, in thrusting posture?

That's also what made the "tortoise" (testudo) formation so deadly, right?

Most shields had metal edges specially to discourage "traditional" sword strokes, right?

Dan

The gladius was largely a thrusting weapon but as for gladiatorial weapons I don't know. I do know that the best "matches" were those where one man's weapons matched another's weakness and vice versa. However remember that at least for soldiers the shield was designed so it had straps that went around your arms as well so it didn't drop if you just let go, although again a gladiator's buckler might be another story entirely.

"Like" for jowady's response (can we get a button here?). I think that the parchment that your historical statistical data depends upon was burned up in the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th sack of Rome in 455 AD, and that all you have to go on now is the hearsay of Roman reinactors, most of which are in Britain, which sees itself somehow as the the last bastion of the Roman Empire, ironically because they last saw Roman troops in AD406 and it took the West 70 more years to collapse.

But seriously, I'd be hanging onto that sucker for dear life, if I were a trained ROman, or anyone else for that matter.

Read somewhere that Legionnaires would carry two Gladii in case they dropped one during battle. Both on the right side, don't know if that's from a work of fiction or not.

Work of fiction? They also carried a dagger, (pugius? pugio?)

"How often would a blow to a shield cause the user to drop it?"

I don't believe statisticians of the day spent any time recording that rather particular scenario.

Look at more recent accounts, perhaps (Medieval?). I would think it would be similar.

MH

From my practical experience with HEMA and various sparring sessions, I can give you an almost certain answer:
Never, if we´re speaking about sword blows.

The question seems to be inspired by common misconceptions about swords and fighting styles brought to you by hollywood. Swords are not meant to crush shields.

The only scenario I can imagine that would result in dropping your shield is after getting hit by a Pilum and surviving that largely unscathed, which could make using your shield very unwieldy.
Second plausible scenario is if we´re talking about top heavy weapons like axes, warhammers and maces, which are much more likely to crush a low-quality wooden shield.
But then again, take wooden plank and try destroying it with a sharp axe, it will take quite a few blows unless it´s already very battered from the start.

And correct me if I'm wrong but shields were strapped to your arm, not "held." So it actually took some effort to get the darn thing off, no?

Yeah if a sword blow caused you to lose a shield I imagine shield makers would go back to the drawing board pretty damn quick.

I guess it all depends on the adhesive you use. Polyurethane or Cyanoacrylate works for me most of the time.

Sometimes it might require pinning it to the arm. Apparently it causes no serious amount of pain on them, being as I've never heard my figures utter a peep.

Dan

Actually a lot of shields were actually held with a single handed grip (horizontal, i.e. perpendicular to the long axis if not a circular or square shape) in/behind the boss and no arm strap.

Always wondered how that worked out for scutums and other large shields when someone hit an end of the shield. The fact that the shield would pivot would take some of the impact, but by swinging up or down it would seem to be exposing the owner.

Don't know that it would make one drop it though.

Never tired a single hand grip when in the SCA, just with trash can lids in the younger days…

I certainly was entertained by the various responses here. Thanks!

I'm not much of a historical gamer, so I didn't know what you all knew about the subject (clearly not much) or whether it was even a topic of interest (clearly not!).

Goragrad hit upon my general drift. I guess I need to explore more about how the shields were held ("strapped" or literally held) and go from there, and assume that as swords were likely dropped more than shields, that "shield drop" results shouldn't really be part of the game.

Thanks again, even for the fun snarky comments :)

As I recall form discussing this with modern Roman reenactors, the Trajenic style of scutum (at least) were held with a cross grips and used as a punching and barging weapon in combat: many years ago I was given a frightening demo of their "punch; stab; step; stomp (with the hobnailed sandal)" method of attack/advance.

As I remember it the cross bar grip was fundamental to this.

John T