"Team Whiskey - Fulda Gap Batrep 4 Part II" Topic

All,

This is the second part of Scenario 4, Team Whiskey's desperate rear-guard action to cover the withdrawal of 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment. To refresh your memory, in Turn 1 the Soviets came on the table with a large armored force (Soviet Mech 1 of 6 BMPs and infantry, Soviet Tank 1 of 6 T-72s, Soviet Mech 2 of 6 BMPs and infantry, and Soviet Tank 2 of 6 T-72s) travelling at speed down the road. I small US infantry detachment was dug-in in and around the village of Bad Stulz, and let rip with five TOW launchers, causing heavy casualties. In Turn 2, the Soviets were able to reform, begin pushing forward, causing quite a few casualties among the severely outnumbered US troops. But, just when things looked really dark, a platoon of M1 Abrams came on the board to even the odds a bit.

Back to the action, picking up at the start of Turn 3.

Captain Lemmey leads three Abrams forward on the right, where they exchange fire with BMPs at very close range.

The BMPs take the worst of it.

Things get crazy in the village: I'm known for my missile shots, but this one is going the wrong way! A BMP launches a Spandrel at an M1. To see how the fight turned out, please check the blog at:
link

In the big picture, Team Whiskey re-formed and fell back with the rest of 11th ACR to its next defensive line near the major city of Frankfurt. The 11th ACR (hell, all of NATO probably) has taken hellacious casualties, and the Regiment Commander is in the process of re-organizing his force (consolidating Troops** that have taken too many casualties) when something terrible happens… Stay tuned!

**Am I screwing this up? I've been calling Team Whiskey "4th Troop," though it is battalion strength. But now it's seeming to me that cavalry units that are battalion-level should be Squadrons, not Troops. But I'm also using the term "Team," but I don't mean Company Team, I mean Battalion Team, if there is such a thing. I mean, I know you can cross-attach different companies to make battalion-level teams, I just don't know if they would then be called a 'Team.' I know I've heard the Army use the term "Battalion Task Force," so is that what I should be using? Certainly Team Whiskey sounds better than Battalion Task Force Whiskey. I hate the Army ;)

Anyway, more to come.

V/R,
Jack

Battalion sized is Squadron

TF Whiskey would be a better tag. Because of the nature of Cavalry Troop organization at the time you would not see a lot of cross attachment at the Troop level. Though I could see a Squadron Commander making a Zulu Troop by task organizing a couple of Tank platoons together.

So far the AARs are fun!

Awesome job again!

I can just hear the crew inside their Abrams.
"Load HEAT!"
"Gunner! BMP at 2 o'clock. FIRE!!!"
"On the way!"

Scratch one BMP. Ivan took it on the nose in this battle but 3 more Abrams tanks lost! If I were commanding that field as the Russians fell back I would see if my M88's could pull back and get any of those Abrams back into line as long as they were not total write offs.

Keep those reports coming!

You are good Jack a Bn team would be a Task Force. We would swap out a tank company for an Inf company on exercises and would be designated Task Force Mustangs. Companies become teams when they swap out a platoon ie a tank platoon for an Infantry.. FYI the Inf guys that got assigned to our Cav unit loved it. The tankers that got assigned to the Inf Bn not so much.. Lol..

Squadrons and troops were only used in Cavalry units but not all, the 8th Cavalry in which I served had Battalions I was with Headquarters and Headquarters Troop Scout Plt 4th Bn 8th Cavalry Regt. (Heavy) The army went Cavalry crazy in the 80's and redesignated a bunch of armor battalions as Cavalry.

Jack,

Great report! Keep having fun.

Joe

Jack…that was an exciting battle report. I felt like I was there, but darn glad I wasn't. I look forward to the next one. Ben

Saber – Yeah, I figured. But Team Whiskey still sound better ;)

General – The M1s and TOWs were pumping out rounds/missiles as quick as humanly possible. I've loved the feeling of fighting totally outnumbered, it's been a lot of fun. And I'm with you on recovery, but it's not fitting with the scenario. If I was doing my own thing, I could see actually staging recovery missions to go out and fight to get vehicles back.

CavScout – Of course the infantry loved it. Tanks, and no walking! ;)

Joe – Thanks man, and I just saw your S-boats batrep, excellent stuff. I still need to get my coastal forces ready for SW Pacific.

Ben – It was a whole lot of fun, working on the next one!

V/R,
Jack

CavScout: FWIW Regimental Cavalry in the 80's was organized differently than the Cavalry Squadrons in 1st Cavalry Division. In 1st CAV they were organized Armor or Infantry Battalions. Regimental Cavalry troop was 2 Scout Platoons (6 Bradley CFV) 2 Tank platoons (4 M1) and a Mortar Platoon. Part of their job was to give the signature of a Mech/Armor TF.

Lots of Firepower in a Regimental CAV Squadron (IIRC 3 troops + Howitzer Battery) but the Squadron usually covered what a Brigade would (each troop having a 3-5 KM wide zone).

Saber6 I noticed that the current Cav units are much different then the ones I served in or with from 83-89. I was looking at the current TO&E for the 2nd Cavalry Regiment, it is pretty much an Infantry Armor Task Force.
Love the AAR's Jack!
I'm hoping to get my Cold War gone hot campaign kicked off. I did a change on it and took it away from Fulda to another avenue of attack, the Hof Corridor. Still doing research on Soviet and Czech units.. Plus the need to purchase T-55AM's for the Czech Mech units.

Just Jack – Great battle report. I love going through your site!

One question though, what are you using for your TOW teams? I don't think that GHQ makes one do they?

CavScout – I look forward to some NATO vs Czechs!

Landorl – Thanks! I dunno if GHQ makes TOWs or not (I think they only had Dragons in their 'modern' US Wpns set). I'm actually using Javelins from GHQ's US 'ultramodern' US Wpns set. Close enough for me ;)

Kyote – What are you talking about 4.2" mortars and winking about? You know what would be better than 4.2s? Some 155s? And better than that? Some B-52s! We could go all the way to nukes if you like ;)

In any case, Team (Task Force) Whiskey only has 81mm mortars at its disposal, and no amount of winking will change that! ;)

V/R,
Jack

**Am I screwing this up? I've been calling Team Whiskey "4th Troop," though it is battalion strength. But now it's seeming to me that cavalry units that are battalion-level should be Squadrons, not Troops. But I'm also using the term "Team," but I don't mean Company Team, I mean Battalion Team, if there is such a thing. I mean, I know you can cross-attach different companies to make battalion-level teams, I just don't know if they would then be called a 'Team.' I know I've heard the Army use the term "Battalion Task Force," so is that what I should be using? Certainly Team Whiskey sounds better than Battalion Task Force Whiskey. I hate the Army ;)

Well, yeah you're screwing it up. But that's okay, you're just a marine Jack! LOL!!

The cavalry has always been a pain as they go to weird places with their organizations. But yes, in general this is true:

Platoon = platoon. But be careful here as a cavalry platoon is a big place. Current ones have 6 M3s. The platoons of yore were almost company strength when you count vehicles. My up-coming cavalry force follows an old TO&E that has 9 vehicles! Two scout sections with 3 M551 Sheridans each, 1 infantry squad with its own M113, one mortar squad with its own track, and a command team riding in a M113 too! Three of those platoons with a tank platoon is a full troop! Yikes!!

Troop = company. But a big company though. Cavalry units were meant to screen the main divisions so they were really beefed up and placed a lot of normally battalion level assets down to the troop and platoon level. Like I said three of these platoons plus a tank platoon is a troop. But the later cavalry is even scarier! Check out this "Troop" from 1990!

link

Notice two cavalry platoons matched up with two tank platoons. And some people wonder how the 2nd ACR torn those Republican Guards at 73 Easting!

link

Squadron = Battalion. Usually 3 troops make up a battalion, but older ones (like mine) sometimes have a tank company too. Theres also the obligatory HHT (HQ troop) and SST (service support troop) too.

Then you have 3 ground squadrons with an air squadrons with the HQ and other addons that even include an artillery battery or more depending on the mission and there you have it. TADA! A USA Armored Cavalry Regiment in all its weirdness.

I just assumed that you went with a infantry battalion that was flying the cavalry's colors. You'll find that especially in the 1st Cavalry Division where a mech infantry battalion is flagged as a cavalry unit. They're easy to sort out though because they don't call their units troops, they are companies.

Finally as cavscout pointed out- companies are pure units without cross-attachments. Teams are companies who have traded platoons. Let's say my beloved C Company 2/34 Armor traded a platoon with A Company 1/16 Infantry. We would cease to be C Company and would become either Charlie Team or Aces (our nickname) Team. I forget what the grunts would call themselves… something suitably crunchy I bet. If we didn't switch we would stay just C Company. Pick up a copy of Team Yankee, Cole shows this way of doing things and explains things.

Battalions who swap companies (and then switch platoons like above) and have all sorts of flyswatters, engineers, and cannon cockers added become Task Forces (or Battalion Task Forces). When my 2/34 swapped with the 1/16 we became Task Force Dreadnought or TF 2/34.

And hey, the Army doesn't have the monopoly on weirdness.

I'm still waiting for a marine to explain to me how you can have the 7th Marine "Regiment" with four battalions, one of which is 3rd Battalion, 4th Marines!?! What do you guys have against the 4th anyway? It's a outfit and they should have their own "Regiment".

And what's up with the one regiment brigades you people are fielding anyway???? It looks like a combination of a sorry excuse you guys give the aviation and armor folks so they don't feel like they've been dragooned into one of the line regiments and a jobs/welfare program for out-of-work O-6s (Brigadier Generals).

And while we're at it, what is a *%*$$ LAR battalion anyway? Is it infantry, cavalry, or armor? And what exactly does it do? It acts like cavalry to me until you guys dismount them and make them grunt… seesh, the Corps!

Anyway, I just finished part one, so off to part two for me.

TGunner,

Yeah man, I think I'm up to speed on the Army terminology stuff. And yeah, I basically went with a standard 'infantry-heavy' task force as part of the 11th ACR, rather than follow a cav T/O, as I wanted to keep to simpler, smaller forces that I was (more) familiar with.

I do have big dreams of doing some crazy Cav stuff in Vietnam, going full out Apocalypse Now with Blues and 'Pink' Teams in the air, ground in M-113 ACAVs and Sheridans, and even some riverine stuff! I have quite a bit of it in 10mm, and quite a bit in 6mm, need to get it figure out. I'd probably rather go 6mm (for lots of helos and riverine stuff, which is so expensive in 10mm), but I can't figure out palm/coconut trees in 6mm…

Regarding Marine stuff: 4th Marines. The official story is, their HQ is at Camp Schwab in Okinawa, but their three battalions are in the States because it is unfair to post the infantry battalions permanently overseas (so 4th Marines in Okinawa always has three battalions chopped to it: one from 2nd MarDiv at Lejeune, one from 1st MarDiv at Pendleton, and one from 3rd Marines in Hawaii) for six-month rotations, which gets them valuable training time OCONUS. And so the three 'actual' 4th Marines' battalions are chopped to 1st MarDiv (two at Pendleton, with 1st Marines and 5th Marines, and one at 29 Palms with 7th Marines). They actually used to alternate the 4th Marines battalions from East to West coast every few years, but I don't know if it's done anymore.

Unofficially, 4th Marines HQ can't be brought back to the States due to it shaming itself by being the largest US Marine formation to have ever surrendered, which occurred at Corregidor in May 1942, under the orders of ARMY General Wainwright…|

I'm not following you about 'one-regiment brigades.' To me, and I was a Marine so it makes sense, a Brigade is a nothing more than a regiment the appropriate HQ, air support, additional ground combat elements (tanks, tracks, arty, engineers, etc…), and combat service support. So we don't call it a Brigade, per se, it's a Marine Expeditionary Brigade, which is nothing more than the next larger-sized task-organized task force up from a MEU.

And you've got LAR correct, they're simply cavalry, designed to carry out the traditional cavalry role of screening, reconnaissance, and raiding. In the asymmetrical environment they've been used as mobile infantry. But they're not organized, or meant to act, as infantry. I know back when they were LAI (Light Armored Infantry, before changing to LAR), they were different MOSs (not 0311s), don't know now. I wasn't around those guys too much during my time in the Marines.

More batreps on the way, I got two fights in this weekend.

V/R,
Jack

link

Hey Jack. I was just playing with my questions, but thanks for answering them. I've always been curious about that.

I've suspected what you said about the 4th. It's a shame. The 4th was a great regiment that did a yeoman service for many years. It's interesting to see how the services treat their forces. The only regular regiment in the Army that surrendered in WWII was in the Philippines- the 31st Infantry. That regiment was reformed rather quickly (MacArthur saw to that) and it saw a lot of action after the war: in Korea and Vietnam. The 31st did go down fighting its heart out so it's pretty honored in the Army. Ditto for its bad luck in Korea too (it fought its way out with the 1st MARDIV at Chosin). It's a shame that the 4th can't be a "real" regiment.

As for brigades… in the Army, prior to ROAD, brigades were collections of regiments. From the Revolution to WWI (and even to the brink of WWII) the Army fielded brigades made up of regiments- usually four regiments to a brigade (but each regiment formed only a single battalion so your typical brigade really had four "battalions"). When WWI rolled around the Army went square and reduced each brigade to two regiments BUT expanded each regiment to three battalions (instead of all of the regiment's companies formed into one battalion). Let's take the 2nd ID:

3rd Infantry Brigade
9th Infantry Regiment
23rd Infantry Regiment
5th Machine Gun Battalion

4th Marine Brigade
5th Marine Regiment
6th Marine Regiment
6th Machine Gun Battalion (USMC)

2nd Field Artillery Brigade
12th Field Artillery Regiment
15th Field Artillery Regiment
17th Field Artillery Regiment
2nd Trench Mortar Battery

So basically you have two regiments brigaded together with two brigades (plus an artillery brigade) forming a division. Notice the Marine brigade mixed in. Later, right before the war the US dropped the old brigades (mostly) and went with the three regiment triangular division which basically stuck around, more or less until the 50's and the Pentomic divisions. After that SNAFU the Army dropped the regiment all together, broke up the battalions, and brigaded the battalions into the modern brigade. You know, 3-4 battalions with other stuff to form a brigade combat team.

So for me as a soldier the Marine Brigade is a strange creature. It isn't a brigade as we use them nor is a brigade like we use to use them. It's mini division (thus my crack about a brigadier general wellfare program, it makes a command for them beyond division XO) with one brigade (your regiment) with all the addons like the tanks, an airwing, and whatever. In the Army we just lump all that stuff under the maneuver brigade (your regiment). Yeah, just thinking about how that must work gives me a headache.. LOL!

That's what I thought about the LAR and it's part of my theory about what you did with your 11th ACAV. It's basically a LAR battalion without the wheels! Sadly, the M3 Bradleys that 11th uses/used only carried 2 dismounts, not a squad like the LAV based LARs. Honestly, I like your organization better than ours!

Anyway, still behind on part two, so off I go!