"Bavarian 7th Light Battalion Gunter" Topic

Well I am painting Bavarian 7th Light Battalion for 6mm using Adler miniatures. After reading John Gill's To Glory with Eagles he says that this light battalion differed from the rest of the army since it wore a shako. I am wondering three things.

1. What would be the best Adler miniatures to create this unit? I was thinking Austrians in shako and cutting off the pom pom. Any other suggestions?

2. Would the commander officer Gunter worn the tradition Bavarian helmet or the Shako as well. I have seen pictures of a major wearing a shako and another of a commanding officer wearing a helmet. I was thinking a helmet because it seems Gunther did not trust his men as majority were Tyrolian natives and I am guessing he was a Bavarian.

I am going to use the uniforms on the right.

3. I have seen pictures and I swear I read that Bavarian infantry horse furniture was in the facing color. Does anyone know if this is the case in 1809? Here is a picture I found of such a case in the facing color of pink.

Thank you in advance
Michael

In 1807 in Tyrol the Tiroler Jäger Bataillon was formed, they had a tunic with one row of buttons and no lapels and the shako.
In 1811 it received the number number seven for the light infantry battlions but was disbanded in the same year.

When it became Nr. 7 the coat as well as headdress was like the other light infantry battalion, which would be helmet and tunic with lapels, officers did only were the single breasted tunic as well as the shako.

So for 1809 I would opt for the tunic with one row of buttons and the shako for headgear – men, NCOs and officers alike.

in 1809 the saddle cloth for line officers was red, regardless of what facings, confirmed by a contemporary painting of Kobell showing an infantry officer with yellow facings but red saddle cloth

Mounted officers of Light battalions – green saddle cloth, in case I remember correctly

Very nice plate of those Bavarians wearing the old white Rumford uniform and the Rumford Kasket, do you have more of those Hoffmann plates??

Von Winterfeldt,

Thank you for the information. I am going to have the battalion in shako and the commanding officer in shako as well. Here is a great picture of Bavarian Schutzen in 1813 campaign

Also looking at this picture what arm is the officer in the light blue with the light blue horse furniture?

This is the link I used for the search engine that I found the plates on. link

Also found two great pdf files. One shows what looks like primary source pictures or at least very close to the time period. the second is of Kobell's battle paintings

PDF link
PDF link

Sorry for going over board with the pictures. Just great to find information on Bavarians.

Michael

great pictures, that one in light blue uniform is a miscolouration of a Kobell prints of Bavarian cavalry of about 1803 – the same occured in the infantry one where also the light infantry got light blue tunics instead of green, I have the same plates but with better colouration, I think those with the wrong colouration are from the ASK Brown collection.

I wonder if I could buy a big enough quantity from Leon Adler to convince him to create Bavarian in greatcoats for 1809. I am guessing all it would take is to put a Bavarian helmet on french in greatcoat post 1808. For some reason the large helmet and a greatcoat just looks so good together.

the second pdf link is very interesting – brings some of Kobells wonderfull battle paintings, alas too small in that catalogue

the black and white one is also from Kobell Bavarian army of 1803

Bavarians in great coats for 1809 – would serve well till 1815, in 1809 Bavarian army did already carry the back pack, just like the French army

I think I have few spare french infantry in greatcoat and a few Bavarian heads I might try a conversion.

Also if you get a close up of the second pdf. I am not sure I am aware of when the Bavarian army fought the Russians pre 1812 with the picture titled The Attack of the Russians at Poplawy. Von Winterfeldt any chance you have information on this painting.

Well I made a WIP of the 7th Light Battalion. This is from a Hungarian infantryman conversion. Unfortunately, the Hungarian knots on his legs are causing issues with painting the trousers and I am not happy with this conversion. So I will order some Austrians in Shako to see how that works.
[URL=http://s1364.photobucket.com/user/Boomerlc23/media/WP_20150923_019_zps0e5m2ugc.jpg.html]

[/URL]

[URL=http://s1364.photobucket.com/user/Boomerlc23/media/WP_20150923_013_zpsamqzkzyt.jpg.html]

[/URL]

[URL=http://s1364.photobucket.com/user/Boomerlc23/media/WP_20150923_023_zpspn9pjbbr.jpg.html]

[/URL]
[URL=http://s1364.photobucket.com/user/Boomerlc23/media/WP_20150923_029_zpsz56cn3qa.jpg.html] [/URL]

Also two officers. After further research I made the coat darker than this picture for the line infantry officer. Also in the long run I will paint an Austrian officer in Shako as Gunter.

the conversion looks quite convincing – about mounted officer of light infantry, in case I remember correctly green saddle cloth, I have to cross check.
About Poplawi, it occured in 1807 showing the crown prince with his staff, including the Major Washington.
In case you want to see more pictures – state your e – mail address and I will forward.

The idea of using the Austrians and remove the pompom is good. You think the idea of using the jaeger wurttemberg. But unfortunately they are only posing "advancing".

WN2B Jaeger shako advancing

Marco

For the saddle cloth of light infantry, I couldn't find a regulation, so red is quite ok following the line infantry

Thank you guys! I think with the 7th Light battalion I should base them running away! After reading John Gill's books he says that by late April there were only 165 left in the battalion out of a total around 680. Marcus that is a great idea about using Wurtemberg light troops! However, like you said since I base my figures in three ranks deep it is very hard to use advancing figures.

Von W my email is boomerlc23 at gmail .com. Do you have any OOB or details about the fighting itself?

Thank you!

I have no OdB – but photos will be send in due course

MarbotChasseurs

If you convince Adler to make Bavarians in greatcoats and helmets, I'll certainly be interested. But I would only be buying about 70 miniatures, so not sure if it would be worthwhile for him, unless he gets a flood of pre-orders? I'd love him to make some French engineers as well. One can dream.

French Engineers?
Just standard Line dress with black facings as I recall………and only Officers as donkey work done by lumbered Line fellas.
Problem is cost, set aside the design cost as such, Bavarians in greatcoat would need, Line, elite, plus three figure cmd group and mounted Officer, then the artillery crew…… pre pro mould and production moulds cost approx £150.00 GBP….all adds up unfortunately. Most of all its the time.
I'll think about it while Im fiddling with Spanish, Dutch/Belgians and Vistula stuff.
Its a crowded market these days more makers getting a smaller slice of the same size market makes things tricky to cross subsidise popular lines with the more obscure.

L

Great post, this interests me too as I am about to embark on a Bavarian army, good stuff guys!!

Leon,

Since my battalions are 18x4 companies so 72 figures I would buy at least 300 if not more! Also no need for elite companies since I am doing 1809 (being selfish). Honestly, I rather keep the officers in their regular uniforms since I believe most paintings I have seen show the Bavarian officers wearing no greatcoats and the soldiers in greatcoats. Whatever you decide to do I would gladly put down money prior to ordering since I have always had great customer service from your company.

Michael

Micheal,
Id consider using Prussian ( PN 2C/2B, XPN 1) for your 7th, they're wearing shako covers but reckon the look is right. I haven't checked the reference but I know the book.
Will think about it but have to have elites with plume otherwise no elite/Light companies. At the moment bit busy with shows, redoing loads of production moulds and finalising the 20mm stuff.
L

We have just made a decision to buy into 1/72 plastics after years of analyzing the situation. For both armies of French and Austrian the total cost is $140 USD including shipping from eBay. We believe this is a great decision and takes us just above 15mm and under 28mm, and enables us to use all our 1/72 WW2 scaled terrain for Europe.

We chose NOT to do Russia for reasons which should be clear; e.g. limited campaigns

We chose NOT to do Prussia for much the same reason.

We chose to do anything BUT the era of the British coming into the EU.

So, we chose to do Austria/Italy campaigns as these have proven to be the most interesting and present the greatest terrain varieties.

I thought readers of this topic might like to know our position.

Thanks for that companycmd, not sure its on topic ( who cares) but congrats on making a decision, often the hardest bit.

I often find peoples choice of figure scale tricky to understand. One of the reasons Ive often heard for choosing 6mm is because its cheaper, to which my reply is if thats that reason your choosing it as a scale its the wrong reason.
Its the scale effect not cost that should be the reason. You can achieve a look for Napoleonics in 6mm ( and 3mm goes to another level again) which 'looks' right and makes sense of the tactics and formations.
Ive never seen a game with 15mm + scale figs that looks anything other than seriously odd in Napoleonics myself.
L

I picked 6mm because I found adler miniatures have a massive range that I could paint at a decent level and somewhat quickly. I like to depict larger formations since that is what I think of when I think of napoleonic war. Also the details on adlers are by far the best out there so it made my decision even easier.

Von W
After reading Franz Hauseman journal it seems the combat of Poplawi was fought around Pultusk in 1807. It was Prince Ludwig first battle with Wrede in true command of the fighting. I could be wrong, but this is the only time I could find the Bavarian army fighting the russians prior to 1812.

a lot of sieges and other smaller battles were going on in 1807 – I am not sure if Poplawi was the sole Occasion of Bavarians fighting Russians, I would have to check several reference material about the Bavarian Army of 1807.

LeonAdler

Sorry, I should have stated Guard Engineers, as depicted in Napoleon's Specialist Troops, Osprey Men-at-Arms No 199, pages 34-38. They wear helmets and some are depicted wearing siege armour. But I guess the demand would be too small to interest you, considering the cost and time to produce them?

MarbotsChasseurs

I went for Adler for the same reasons. Good wide range and great detail and they look great on the table. Just a pain to paint, well for me anyway.

Gazzola,
Ah the Guard fellas, think its two companies(?) as for the siege armour yes worn by the miners but dont think sieges are done much if at all in this period so cant imagine sales would be any at all lol Total sales of Sappeurs dont indicate a great demand I'm afraid.
As for painting ditch the black primer/acrylics and use enamels/oils is what I say lol
I shall now go and hide back under my rock…………
L

Leon

I see no reason to hide! I actually prefer the enamels. LOL. It is a matter of choice, I guess? My fellow wargamers and even some family members are baffled as to why I prefer them, but I just do.

As for the engineers in helmets and those in armour. I think Heroic and Ros did them at one time. Not sure how they went down overall but I bought a few packets. But I was disappointed because if I remember rightly, although they had some in armour, there were none in fighting or firing poses. There is good image of them in action, firing muskets etc, when attacking the Charleroi bridge in 1815, in Commandant Henry Lachousque's Waterloo, page 65. Although here he describes them as sappers.

Anyway, I know I would pay well over the odds for such miniatures and wondered if you felt there was a market for 'requested miniatures', that is, for a customer like me who wants French engineers in helmets firing muskets etc. I imagine many wargamers who, like me, already have their mass battalions and squadrons, may be on the look out for something different. As I say I would not mind paying a high price for them and perhaps others would feel the same? It is just a thought.

Gazzola,
Well I'll have a think about it, at the moment very little design time as its show after show and no design time makes me even grumpier ( not possible :ed) and even less patient with things. Not sure I will make it to retirement age at this rate……..lol
L

Leon

Many thanks. And nice to see you have plenty of shows to attend and hopefully lots of work. But take it easy if you can. There is no rush, in terms of the suggestions I have made anyway. I have quite a few unpainted Adlers to get stuck into for now.

Leon

I have just discovered a pack of cavalry miniatures with no label, which I had either forgotten to apply or it had fallen off at some point.

The troopers have the code WC1A on them, and the command has WC1B. They all wear helmets with horsehair manes and are in the charging pose. Would I be right in assuming these are Wurttemburg Chevaulegers? I'm just checking because the code on your website for the Wurttemburg Chevaulegers have the code WNC1A, while the miniatures I have contain no letter N?