"USMC TO&E for Platoon - Vietnam to the late 1970s?" Topic

A bit curious about the USMC infantry platoon org., for the 1960s through the late 1970s, before the M240 MG made its appearance.

I'm especially interested in the TO&E, for post-Vietnam, for the unit slated to deploy in Europe, should an attack occur there.

I'd like to know how many troops were authorized, and what they're armed with, in the Marine Infantry Platoons:

HQ section
3 x Infantry Squads
Heavy Weapons Squad (if there is one, or an attachment from the Company Heavy Weapons platoon) for the platoon?

I believe there are 3 squads per platoon, generally, plus the others mentioned above, and 13 men in a squad.

It appears that prior to 1977, when the M240 became available, squads only had 1 x M60 per unit (and perhaps one squad in the platoon might not even get that, unless the recoilless rifle was swapped out for another M60 that could be scrounged up – supposedly, only 6 of these in the Hvy Wpns plt. at the company level, to be parceled out to 9 squads).

Perhaps that changed over time though, as the RRs became less prevalent in the units?

If the above is correct, then perhaps two of the squads would get M60s, and the third one would field a heavier anti-tank weapon, like the 3.5" bazooka (also rapidly growing obsolete), Carl Gustav, AT4, Dragon, etc.?

I'd also like to know what is in the USMC Infantry Company as well, e.g.:

HQ section
3 x Inf. Platoons (as above)
1 x Hvy Weapons Plt.

IIRC, there are 6 x M60 machine guns, mortars (60mm or 81mm?), and recoilless rifles in the heavy weapons unit. Perhaps some TOW or Dragon launchers, and/or AT4s and Carl Gustavs too, as they become available.

Here are a couple of links for previous discussions on the subject, here at TMP, where I was able to obtain some of the above info from:

TMP link

TMP link

Any more info you can shed on the above will be greatly appreciated.

Mako,

I can't speak to T/O going back as far as you want, but I can help with a couple things (I was a Marine from 94-04), and I was a machine gunner (0331). We didn't get M-240s until 1997; is that just a typo (you keep putting 1977)? There were 240s in use in armored units, but in the grunts we had M-60E3s.

The unit you're looking for in terms of covering Norway is 6th Marine Regiment; that's who did all the cold weather stuff and was slated to deploy to Norway during the Cold War. I may be incorrect, but I believe it was the whole regimental landing team, plus support, referred to as 6th MEB (Marine Expeditionary Brigade), or 6th MAB (Marine Amphibious Brigade) in the early 80s and prior?

On the infantry squad: I can't speak to Vietnam-era and some squirrel-ly things that happened during the draw-down immediately after, but in the T/O that finally got settled on, there's no such thing as a Weapons Squad, and the only weapons an infantry platoon (let's say, through the 1990s) has are:
M9s
M-16A2s
M-203s
M-249s
AT-4s

Weapons Platoons had:
M-60E3s
60mm mortars
SMAWs
(plus personal weapons)

Weapons Company had:
heavy guns (M2s and Mk19s)
TOWs
81mm mortars

The only problem is, I can't remember where the Dragons were. It would make sense that they would be at company level (Wpns Plt), but it seems like they had some weird set-up where both Dragons and TOWs were at battalion level (Wpns Co).

Hope that helps.

V/R,
Jack

The Dragons were at Company level while the tows were at Bn level..
so your looking at :
Rifle Squad x 3
Fire team x 3 each squad
team 4 men each one man would be designated automatic riflemen and would be the only man authorised to fire full automatic. Asst AR man with rifle ,Rifleman might have M79 instead of rifle,team leader with rifle.
attached from weapons platoon x2 M60 MG teams 3 men each..
an assualtman team armed with Law (these were specialy trained Law gunners unlike the army ).
Platoon Hqs
Plt Leader with rifle
Platoon Guide with rifle (NCO)
1-2 runners with rifle one is RTO.
1 Navy corpsman Attached.
Post nam sees the Automatic rifleman with Saw and 1 man per team with M203.
Dragon at the companies weapon platoon (again speacialy trained gunners unlike the army).
Tow at Bn weapons company.
Vietnam the 90mm M67 is at company and the M40 M106 is at Bn..not sure when they were replaced by ATGM some were not replaced till they late 80s

Thanks for the info and replies.

That really helps.

I got the M240 introduction date of 1977 from Wikipedia, based upon when they were produced. I figured perhaps some lag in getting them out to units, but 20 years sounds like an awful long time.

The M249 is listed as being available in 1984, so I assumed that was distributed later than the M240s.

So, Trance, if I'm understanding you correctly, there are 13 men in the squad (from what I've read previously), as follows:

Squad Leader – M16, or M16 with M203 (read that usually the S.L. usually insists on having it, but can't recall if that is for the Marines, or Army (perhaps both)

3 x Fireteams of 4 men, consisting of:

1 x Team Leader with rifle – M16
1 x Auto-rifleman with M16 (full auto fire)
1 x Auto-rifle assistant with rifle – M16
1 x Rifleman – M16 (one man per squad could carry the M49 instead; I've also read that in Vietnam, sometimes this person would carry the M16 and M79)

Given the way you've worded the above, it sounds as if the platoon may also have some additional troops with the M60 machineguns (2 groups of 3 men, presumably carrying M16s and extra ammo for the M60s, if not the M60s themselves).

I thought instead, perhaps, that the M60s would just be parceled out to the squad personnel, swapping out their rifles for the machine guns. I didn't think about the additional personnel, so that makes sense.

How many men were in the LAW assault team, and any idea how many LAWs they carry (I think I've read somewhere that perhaps 2 x spares per man, in addition to the one ready for firing)?

Would the machine gunners and LAW assault teams be attached to the individual squads, or function more on their own as separate fire teams, presumably under the direction of the Platoon Leader, and his assistant?

Mako,

I really think you need to break it down by era, because trying to do Vietnam up to modern isn't working, there were a lot of changes not only in weapons, but in organization. In the 80s the Marine Corps definitely had 13-man squads:
Squad Leader with M-16, then three fire teams of:
Fireteam leader with M-203
Automatic rifleman with M-249
Assistant gunner with M16
'Scout' with M-16 (this was the junior man in the fireteam).

A platoon having two MGs from Weapons Plt happens quite a bit, but please understand it's not 'standard.' The guns go in the best spot to support the mission, not simply divvied up between the rifle platoons. I've never heard of specialized LAW teams, but LAWs are before my time. we do have assault men (MOS 0351) that used the SMAW, which was an 83mm rocket launcher with HE and HEAT rounds, and they came out of Weapons Plt. The riflemen carried AT4s, but there was no doctrinal 'this is how many a man/team/squad will carry.' In Iraq we had them everywhere, but, excepting Fallujah, we pretty much left them in the HMMWVs.

The issue of the M-240 not getting to infantry units was not one of lag; the weapon simply wasn't acquired for infantry use. A limited number of M-240s were acquired to serve on M-1 tanks, LAVs (maybe some helos?), but the Marine Corps continued to field the M-60E3 until 96-97 (I was with C/1/2 when we got the 240 in 97).

"Given the way you've worded the above, it sounds as if the platoon may also have some additional troops with the M60 machineguns (2 groups of 3 men, presumably carrying M16s and extra ammo for the M60s, if not the M60s themselves)."
I'm not following you; the MGs come out of Weapons Platoon, and are manned by Wpns Plt bodies (machine gunners). We don't take MGs and just give them to the riflemen. You have to be very, very, very well trained to be a dedicated machine gunner: open the feed tray, but the bullets in, no, other way ;)

"Would the machine gunners and LAW assault teams be attached to the individual squads, or function more on their own as separate fire teams, presumably under the direction of the Platoon Leader, and his assistant?"
MGs and SMAWs attached to a rifle platoon are going to act be responsive directly to the Plt Cmdr and Plt Sgt, but they're always going to share a geographical space with somebody (whether a rifle squad or the Plt HQ). That is, we're patrolling and I'm a machine gunner, I'm walking with 2nd Squad, I'm not off on my own. But 2nd Squad doesn't own me, I move and fire on what the PC/Plt Sgt direct.

V/R,
Jack

Thanks for the detailedinfo, Jack.

That really helps nail down things.

I was wondering if the MGs would hang back, to provide supporting fire for the troops, or if they'd be attached/work closely with the squads.

Since, as you mention, it's up to the Plt. commander, that provides a lot of flexibility.

I'm looking at creating the TO&E for a USMC rifle company, riding in a platoon of LVTP-7s, so am trying to figure out how many figures, and of which type I need for the various troop stands.

Thinking about the mid-late 1970s era, mainly, at least for now, but am interested in all phases of the Cold War, so your info for the 1980s is also very useful too, in addition to serving as a rough guide for the other eras.