| Thomas Nissvik | 15 Sep 2015 5:58 a.m. PST |
Official files released. Hopefully more to come. Tango, we will need you now! |
| basileus66 | 15 Sep 2015 6:51 a.m. PST |
interviewed Falklands veterans back in the 90s -as part of a project financed by the EU-. Most of their memories regarding their officers were of neglect, rather than abuse or direct torture. One of them, for example, related how his platoon was abandoned on an exposed position a few miles from Port Darwin (Puerto Argentino, as he called it) by its commanding officer. The absent lieutenant forgot to supply them with hot food and ammunition. They survived for almost a fortnight on scarce cold rations, knowing nothing about how the war was going or if the British had already disembarked. He suffered a severe rash because of the extreme cold, that caused him a pain almost unbearable. His inner tighs were suppurating and he developed a fever. First news they had of the British was when an enemy soldier put a knife on his neck and told him to keep quiet or else. He did, of course. The position fall without a shot being fired (my informant said that the enemy soldiers were Gurkhas, but I don't know if that was true or just what his mind made of the enemy that captured them silently and without any fuss, a bit like Allied soldiers that mistook every German panzer with a Tiger) Next day a British medic gave him some ointment to treat his raw skin. When their lieutenant abandoned them, he took with him the map where the mines deployed to protect the position were marked and didn't bother to give a copy to the sergeant he left in charge. According my witness the British local officer ordered his prisoners to mark the minefield, using wooden sticks to locate and mark the mines. One of the soldiers lost a leg to a exploding mine, apparently (I couldn't confirm this report, though). Verbal abuse and, sometimes, physical abuse in the form of casual slaps was common, according most of my interviewees. None of them told me anything about actual torture. Mind that none of my informants came from elite formations. All of them were conscripts and only one was a corporal. There was no NCOs or Officers in the panel of informants. PS: it is a shame but most of the transcripts of the interviews were lost after we came back to Spain. Some bureaucrat apparently thought that more than 200 hours of testimonies recorded by me and others were not relevant enough to merit a proper storage and misplaced the cassettes with the interviews. |
| Mako11 | 15 Sep 2015 9:46 a.m. PST |
Verbal "abuse" in the military? Shocking!!! (yes, your sarcasm meter should be registering off the charts here) I was under the impression that was pretty standard fare, from the first minute of induction into most armies. Seems even the PCP (Political Correctness Police) are inserting themselves into military organizations now too. |
| nickinsomerset | 15 Sep 2015 10:52 a.m. PST |
Most of the British servicemen will have been abused, shouted at, beasted, had room inspections, kit thrown out of windows, forced to work in bad weather, been deprived of sleep and all sorts off awful things, It was good fun though!! Tally Ho! |
| Tango01 | 15 Sep 2015 11:25 a.m. PST |
The article is… true… But it didn't show the real punishment that the poor recruits suffered… Mostly of them have been staked in the wet ground of the islands … practically on water … without asistance or cover … for hours if not days … Punishment with fist blows and kicks were very common to tiny boys of 17 years old… Punishment with stakes in the back too… No food for the soldiers… (those who were in the front, not in the city)… only a a nasty watery broth with something unidentifiable floated… water?… only once a day when the truck can managed to there… if not… take the frost soil and dissolve it in the sun on your metal bowl… but first of all… you have to shave yourself …(no mirror)… then you can take a drink… Many of those nice things happened untill the English troops landed in the Island… From that moment … that kind of punishment ceased to exist … before the landing we have not more of 7 ammo in our weapons that has to be shown everyday… when we received complete magazines and boxes with ammo… exactly in that moment the worsts NCO and Officers began to talk to us as "better friends"… even that… I can asure… than many of them ended dead in the first attack… mostly with shots on their backs… the most intelligent of them run before the combat… some paid their bill in the Continent… Oh!. It was not a picnic… (smile) By the way… those kind of punishment began with the three month training in the continent… it was something common that belongs from many years ago… since the "Conquest of the Desert" I presume. What nasty memories you bring me boys.!! (smile)
Amicalement
Armand
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| Jemima Fawr | 15 Sep 2015 11:54 a.m. PST |
We once had Happy Hour Beer-Call cancelled… War is hell. |
| Jemima Fawr | 15 Sep 2015 5:25 p.m. PST |
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| Lion in the Stars | 15 Sep 2015 6:06 p.m. PST |
@Ditto: That's the old, Victorian-ish attitude that enlisted troops are inherently lazy, etc. Yelling and screaming is par for the course in the military. Been there, done that on both sides of the training room. Given a few "Gibbs smacks" to the back of the head, even. But failure to feed the troops?!? No freaking wonder most of the "leaders" got fragged! |
| Tango01 | 15 Sep 2015 11:01 p.m. PST |
Answering to your good question my friend Tango 2 3… they NEVER EXCPECTED TO FIGHT A WAR!!!… They really think that our USA friend would joint us (???)… if not the rest of the South American countries (which many want to … but they don't allow them to be there)… The only who really knows what was comming to us were the "old" soldiers … those like me who have some studies and more than 22 years old… I was on a Communication unit… so I hear the news… remember the Shetland Island affair?… when they sunk our submarine?… well they said to us that our "brave troops are fighting a guerrilla war against odds of english infantry"… and I hear how they surrender without a single shoot… but I cannot said that in a loud voice… you understand why… but I said that to my budies (my Company) and we prepare for the worst… but we were an exception… mostly of the younger soldiers (17 to 18 years old) WANT to believe those lies… you have to understand them… three month ago they were playing football with their friends in or dinning with their parents at home… and suddenly… HELL!… Even that … with no food, water, etc… moral was hight… so hight that we fight and we fight with all we have even when we know we are goint to loose… and we paid the price… THEM (the old NCO and ranking officers from Captain to up… RUN!!… Amicalement
Armand |
| Tango01 | 15 Sep 2015 11:10 p.m. PST |
"Yelling and screaming is par for the course in the military. Been there, done that on both sides of the training room…" My dear friend… I undestand that… but in my "trainning" there were a lot of "morbidity" from the NCO and some junior officers (Subleut.)… they decided … for example… that we have to take off our jackets and shirts and run in a open field with tall plants with pointed thorns… and suddenly we have to jump "body to ground by"… in a few minutes all of us have our bodies covert by blood… and you cannot even tuch the thorns… some of the poor jungest remain one day there untill the medics can touch them… and about "medics" I'm talking the soldiers like me that have the tittle and have to made the obligatory military service… not the butchers of the military official medic corp… we avoid them even in the Islands… I save my leg because the english medics… my own medics want to amputate it… I have to scape to the point of a weapon to save my leg. I still remember also that when a soldier fell down because exhaustion or injury the NCOs walked over their body with their boots many times untill the poor fellow stop to shout… Amicalement
Armand |
| nickinsomerset | 16 Sep 2015 12:05 a.m. PST |
I have seen British officers beasted for trying to jump the food queue ahead of the junior ranks on the ranges/exercise! Always soldiers first. Tally Ho! |
| Thomas Nissvik | 16 Sep 2015 7:03 a.m. PST |
I challenge anyone to try to make soldiers out of civvies WITHOUT shouting. I can see the need to slap them around, too. Staking to the cold, wt ground? No frigging way.
And leaving your troops unfed, unled and without ammo? That is simply signing up for a Darwin Award. Thanks for your input, Armand. |
| Tango01 | 16 Sep 2015 12:06 p.m. PST |
No mention my friend. Amicalement
Armand |
| Tango India Mike | 18 Sep 2015 4:04 a.m. PST |
Wow this topic has come up at just the right time. I'm planning a new Falklands campaign in 15mm and 1:600 for air power. I was thinking the other day why did the Argentines perform so badly? Was it just being abandoned without food or support for a month before the British arrival. – in other words  poor leadership. Was the troop quality good enough? Conscript doesn't always mean a bad troop quality (though it is often used as a paraphrase for it). |
| Tango01 | 18 Sep 2015 11:31 a.m. PST |
My friend…If you consider the trainning for three month were in the first one you only run and duck… the second one you lern how to march… the third one march again and how you became only a servant to the NCO and Officers… till the last week were you can shoot three (yes… three!) rounds of 7,62 and in some cases (as mine) other three with cal.45 pistol … never a training for hand to hand combat… never to used a greanade… never your bayonnete… nor first aids or night combat notions… well… if you add this to boys of 17 to 18 years old… told me what kind of quality you expected?… Amicalement
Armand |
| Weasel | 18 Sep 2015 2:30 p.m. PST |
Friend of mine spent time in Korea, and saw a Korean officer beat a soldier to a bloody mess with a steel clip board for some infraction while standing at attention. Probably not the thing that you put in the TV commercials to get people to sign up though. |
