"New to miniature gaming (have a few questions)" Topic

Hello

Just joined the site (after lurking for months). Great site! Thank you to everyone who posts pictures, AAR's and the like. You all have given me so much to think about.

Here is my question/dilemma…

I'm new to wargaming, at least table top gaming. I'm a PC gamer at heart (for 20 yrs) but I tire of playing games on a screen. I'd like some table top gaming to mix it up, however, I do not know what scale to use AND I will be playing solo.

My ONLY interest in gaming is World War 2. I've played damn near every PC game that has come out, but I would like to play some table top games. it would be neat to move units on the battlefield, roll some dice, etc….

I'm going with the Schwere Kompanie rules. Maybe a bit much for a newbie miniature gamer, but I really like the rules.

My question is what scale to play?

I can get my "mass army" gaming done on the PC, but 40 tanks on a table sounds intriguing, but, they look so damn small (looking at 6mm GHQ…nice looking models though).

Anything larger (I do LOVE the looks of 15/20mm) just seems too big on a table, but I cannot get over how amazing looking those larger scales are. I'm of the mindset that I can game large scale on the PC, but table top gaming would give me that eye appeal skirmish look, but I'm not sure I can get over seeing a Sherman 3 inches away from a Panther and "think" it's actually 300 yds away.

What would you do if you were a PC WW2 gamer wanting to give it a go with miniatures, playing solo? What scale would YOU go for? Why?

Thank you all and I really look forward to reading your educated replies.

Happy gaming!

I'm going with the Schwere Kompanie rules. Maybe a bit much for a newbie miniature gamer, but I really like the rules.

My question is what scale to play?

Apparently the rules recommend 6mm, 10mm or 15mm.
link

I can get my "mass army" gaming done on the PC, but 40 tanks on a table sounds intriguing, but, they look so damn small (looking at 6mm GHQ…nice looking models though).

Unless you've got a big table you won't have room for that many models if they are 15mm or larger.

but I'm not sure I can get over seeing a Sherman 3 inches away from a Panther and "think" it's actually 300 yds away.

The ground scale in Schwere Kompanie is 1" to 50yds so 3" is only 150yds not 300yds

What would you do if you were a PC WW2 gamer wanting to give it a go with miniatures, playing solo? What scale would YOU go for? Why?

By far the biggest range of available models and figures are in 15mm. Having said that and taking your reservations about the small size of 6mm, I would suggest a compromise at 10mm.

Your observations are good.

Perhaps, if you have any WWII gamers in your area, you might seek out a game or two with them, before deciding on a scale.

6mm is small, but very good, scale-wise on the tabletop, if you want to have a truer real distance to miniatures scale.

3mm minis are even better for that, but I find them a bit too small for land battles, at least for my tastes. They are great for aerial gaming though, and/or aerial attacks on ground targets.

Sounds like you may end up with 6mm, which is a good choice cost wise, and since you can run large, or small games with them, depending upon your interests.

I disagree with the above poster on 15mm scale. There are as many, if not more vehicles available in 6mm, from various manufacturers.

I'd go with 15mm. Lots of availability from many manufacturers with plenty of less expensive plastic being produced.

40 tanks might be a bit much depending on your table size.

I'm really liking 15mm at the platoon level with support as opposed to the company level.

I went with 6mm. Wear reading glasses to see the detail (not a joke!). Although 15mm in general has more variety for WWII you can not beat 6mm. I would also argue that 6mm beats out any other scale for variety in most any era too.

You also might want to check for local gamers, nothing better than gaming with others

I play Schwere Kompanie in 6mm. It depends on how much room you have. I like 6mm on an 8x5 table so those 88's feel like they are long range shooting. Game wise 40 tanks total is near the limit for SK in my opinion. After a company per side, turns can get long with the op fire and all that. 15mm would probably not look good if large models-short measurements don't appeal to you. The one thing 15mm has over 6mm in SK is turret turning. It can be fiddly with micro turrets but if you have another system or it doesn't bother you then again I'd say go 6mm. Schwere Kompanie will feel a lot like Steel Panthers or Squad Leader (I use SL scenarios for it). Unless you are planning on getting a lot of minis 6mm should save money and it's a bit easier to store. You haven't mentioned painting, but for me, painting 15mm infantry is my least favorite, I'd rather do 6mm.

I would recommend 6mm as well. Besides cost and space, they are easier to paint. Simply less detail so simple techniques give a very good looking result. The other issue is terrain – terrain takes up far more space than troops, so consider that too.

Honestly, you may end up doing both 6mm and 15mm eventually. In 15mm stick to infantry with a tank or two. In 6mm go for "Kursk."

Buy a few of each and see what really rocks your boat.

Oh yeah I forgot to mention something about your post.

My ONLY interest in gaming is World War 2.

Muhaahaawahhhhaaa! Good luck with that! It's a gateway drug.

Before you decide a scale, research the local gaming community to see what the predominat scale is. I know you sqid you will solo play, but dont discount the possibility of playing with a group. I originally started solo, but ended up in a group. Great times!

I was stuck in a part of CA for awhile with no gamers and it was miserable. Now that I am Wiesbaden I need to find or create a new group.

You need to consider what is more important… Modeling or gaming. Modeling 15mm will give you more details. 6 mm does take some skill to get the same effect as I am learning with 6mm Napoleonics ans ACW. I actually enjoy modeling 6, 15, and 28mm. I have ACW in all three scales..

Oh and I started saying WW2 only. Extra Crispy is right about being a gate way drug. It will bring out the inner historian and gamer in you.

My preference is 6mm for grand scale or regiment and higher, 15mm for battalion and company, and 28mm for platoon or company minus.

Welcome to the hobby!

Cheers, Scott

ilovepanzer1969, I think you are also acctingman1969 and have been agonising over scale for WW2 games here for 3 years, before finally deciding on 15mm a few months ago?

Please don't fall off the wagon now, more threads asking for advice on dilemmas you've asked for advice on many times already will not get you gaming, merely delay that day still further.

Go and buy miniatures, paint them, play with them.

1969

For a guy who's only interest is WW2 you follow a broad spectrum of topics on TMP :-)

I would strongly suggest you try and find a local group and see what they play before you make a decision.

Just whatever you do – DON'T LOOK AT THE NAPOLEONICS !!

If you are going for massed armies, 6mm is probably the way to go. It also looks good with the relatively short ranges. Great for limited space. Also gives you a sense of actual scale on larger tables. 6mm also have at least as much variety as 15mm. Come to think of it, so does 10mm.

Go with 6mm. If you have bad eye sight, you might consider 10mm as an alternate choice. They are a bit easier to see on the table.

Find a gamer or gaming group you can visit with.

Observe SEVERAL games at different levels of organization
(company, battalion, etc.)

Ask questions (politely) of the gamers in the group.

Then make your decision.

Buy a few models and see which scales you enjoy working on. Unless you are going to have models painted for you the painting task takes time and if your not convinced of your choice of scale it becomes a chore.

I'm new to WW2 and have gone for 1/144 scale. Although I really like AB 20mm figures and have some painted I want to be able to play a larger scope of game on a modest size table. That rules out 20mm. 15 would be fine but there's something on the table that I just like about 1/144 vehicles.

ilovepanzer isn't me, but I WAS in the same boat.

To the OP….I bought a package of GHQ Panzer IV, a couple of Pithead mini's (M4 Shermans) and some PSC (plastic solider company) Pz IIIs

I LOVE the detail on GHQ, but for me, I realized I wanted to game, not build models…but…I do enjoy painting/model building.

What I'm doing is building 6mm armies for when I want to duke it out and doing 15mm ONLY for the era's I like the most (mainly late war europe).

Terrain sucks since you can't really use 6mm terrain for 15mm but I don't care what my terrain looks like. I'm gaming, no building a diorama.

As soon as you say 40 tanks – you are in the ball park of 6mm, even 20 tanks would be the same.

going with 20mm would give a good game with say 6 tanks in it. So really it just depends whether A) you want to play with a few squads or entire companies or B) whether the aesthetic / modelling side is strong enough to make you 'need' the bigger scale.

You are not alone, it is a dilemma that many face, but decisions are often settle on practicalities, how big is your table, how much storage space do you have and what scale actually makes your heart skip a beat!

If I had to do it all over again, I'd probably still go for 15mm figures.

They're just small enough that you can squish 3 or 4 on a stand and have them look like a team, but big enough that you can go into skirmish gaming with no fuss.

Getting a few of each isn't a bad idea if you have a bit extra to blow.

Get say, a tank and a single infantry pack each in 6mm, 10,, and 15mm won't set you back too much money and you can see the effects up close (and the difference in tabletop space).

6mm and 20mm have the widest range of available figures and vehicles. With 20mm you have masses of plastic kits and resin models to be exploited… But you would want to like building kits!!

I only do WW2 in 20mm as for me, its the traditional size to play WW2 in.

But for a person just starting out, 6mm offers a far easier route in. Painting and construction is easier and more forgiving and terrain can be sourced easily and cheaply, even pre-painted at a reasonable cost. It might also fit better with your 'vision' as a PC gamer.

If 6mm is too small and 15mm too big, why not go 10mm or 12mm. I'm not joking – they both exist! The short answer has already been given – if possible find a group, watch and learn, see what you like. If you play solo it doesn't matter but if you play in a group – you need to fit in with what they have.
If you are moving from PC to to tabletop – here is the BIG SECRET. It doesn't matter what you play, you have to enjoy the people. That's the big difference between most PC/online games and tabletop. You will be across the table, possible shoulder to shoulder in a multiplayer game. You war, fight, drink eat and laugh. You trash talk and commiserate, pick on and support. You make good friends, be happy and have healthy relationships. My regular Wednesday night group was the best therapy. Not cheap – all that lead was more expensive then a counselor :-)

If I was you I would get a few sample figures from each scale and then ask yourself do I want to paint these? Is there too much detail ?Do I want to place these in a cabinet afterwards? Have I the room etc.

What may be right with us may not be right with yourself

Some people did not catch the fact that you are playing solo, so you can create whatever armies and scales you want. I have also come to this from PC gaming and can appreciate the idea of doing the smaller scale actions on the table. I have a 6 foot by 3 foot table and I manage to not get it too crowded with 20mm. Smaller scale just get's too fiddly for me for skirmishing, although they are good for larger size games. 28mm is just too big, period.

Yea, not many picked up on the fact that the OP is playing solo.

I play solo too. I don't like gaming groups to be honest. I don't want to compromise the rules/scale I want to play/use.

Like a few others have stated…..buy a couple scales, paint them up (to see how much painting/detail you're really going to be wanting to do) and put them on a table. See which you like.

If you're only gaming a certain timeframe of ww2, you might pick two scales…one for skirmish and another for larger battles

I dont think terrain has been mentioned yet. Do you like building your own? Larger scales are easier to model. But I do 10mm WWII and I'm enjoying the challenge of working at such a small scale. I make my own buildings, and I now understand the joy of Model Railroading. Building can be as fun as playing! Smaller scales are cheaper too. Pithead has a very large range of 10mm miniatures, about every one you'll need. Very good service too.
As to solo play…dont forget you will be the one doing all those calculations---not the computer! You have to run the charts yourself. Have you really sat down and thought about all the work a big game will take? A computer does its calculations in fraction of a second. A game with 40 tanks AND accompanying infantry may take more than an hour per turn for a human to do by themselves. I play Combat Mission on my computer alot. It does big games well. Perhaps you might want to start with smaller solo games, like skirmish level? Just my 2 cents.

I'm thinking skirmish is my best route. Larger battles will take forever, something I'm not really wanting to do. I can do that on the PC. Larger scale allows me to paint and have some detail and also play with mini's. Also, I'm only wanting to do late war on the table, so I won't have the need to buy tons of different vehicles.

Thanks to all for the comments

The length of battles depends on the rules used and the number of miniatures much more than whether you choose skirmish or platoon level. Complex rules proceed slowly regards of even number of miniatures on the table. Many of the fast play rules use platoon level for various reasons.

Scale depends on what you personnaly like and also what other in your area use. If your area is dominated by Flames of War your pretty much stuck with 15mm – unless you choose to do your own thing.

I use 20mm due to high quality and low cost. Most everyone interested in WWII miniatures has some 20mm stuff – it was the universal standard for many years.

6mm is way to small for me and tends to lead to extreme crowding on the table top (you can get a lot of 6mm T34 into a 4" square). Use 1/144 to replace board game peices but not for table top gaming. Like to see what I'm fighting and can't read braille.

Try out some games locally buy some plastic 20mm tanks and see if that's the size you want (their cheap) likewise get a box of 20mm plastic troops (also cheap) and check out size. Most hobby stores carry them and also 15mm Flames of War stuff so you can compare.

Happy Gaming!

TomT

If you want to run more than 20 tanks per side, you need to be playing in smaller scales.

At 15mm, I don't recommend more than about 15 tanks per side, and only having 5 tanks per side with lots of infantry tends to give a better game.

If you want to play with close to 1:1 model:ground scale, you need to play small scales. 3mm (1/600 scale) gives a groundscale of 6" = 100 yards, 6mm means 12" = 100 yards. But you said that you want larger figures for identification.

I think I'd go for 12mm (1/144 scale), and aim for a ground scale of about 1/600. This means that your vehicles are 4x larger than groundscale, about what you'd be seeing if you looked through the gunner's sight.

The 12mm stuff looks…..cruddy. Pithead, while extensive, most look kind of…blah. The vehicles (from what I can see on their site) look clunky or boxy. Not crisp at all, however, I do like the size.

Most, if not all, 15mm resin/plastic kits look so much nicer and aren't that much bigger than 10/12mm.

Again, thanks to everyone

I use 1/144 scale tanks with 1" = 25 meters on a table usually 6x8 feet. This allows firing up to 2000 meters with a good feel and models not too big or too small. We've played up to 12 vehicles per side with good results. For larger games we go to micro armor using the same scale.

Wolfhag