"How many castings return fire in Firefights?" Topic

How are you playing return fire in firefights?

I am playing Empire V, and page 107, 11.60, notes after the side with initiative fires and any morale tests are passed, the non-initiative player may return fire.

That is clear. What I am unclear on is how many castings return fire. The rule is "all castings of formed units that are within range and eligible to fire may do so.

IF my unit is a column 6 castings wide and 3 ranks deep, and I take one casualty, do I return fire with five castings remaining in the front rank? OR, since the second rank figure now has a target and is in range, similar to supporting fire castings, do I return fire with six castings from my unit that is the target of the firefights?

Think of it this way.
Your figure rank of 6 figures is representing a 3 rank formation ( 6 x40 men = 240 in 80 men front, 80 men 2nd rand and 80 men 3rd rank).
The 1 of 6 removed is actually third rank of the formation.
SO technically the stand width is still remaining since the remaining 5 figures is closer to a 2 rank formation( 40 men pushed forward from the 3rd rank to fill/replace the voids of the 40 men from the front and 2nd rank who dropped).
So the return fire is only 5 figures. The with the 2nd figure rank, the formation therefore still cannot see or have a clear field to fire through.

One can say now …..that they would become closer to a 2 rank firing factor or would close ranks opening vfield of fire for the figure 2nd rank( closing ranks that way probably not done in a fire fight) so there would still be ~6 figure fire at the 3 rank factor.

The conclusion is ….This ultimately should be decided by the players how it should be handled before play.

The 1st pt is probably the most easy to do for ease of playability and realism taking on the choas of the moment in the disadvantage place of "return fire".

MG

marshalGreg, thank you for a reasoned and well-presented answer. You have earned a Good Trader score.

At this point in time, there are 124 Hits, some likely duplicate hits as others interested in the answer returned. We have been playing that the casting is removed and return fire is with the remaining front rank. I assume it is a game mechanism, since the casting represents the deterioration of the unit by the equivalent of 60 men. In reality, the 60 casualties would be dispersed throughout the unit, primarily in the first ranks. Ranks could move up to fire per training, officer directives and desire to avenge, thus maintaining the 6 casting return fire. It really becomes telling when a battalion mass with an 18 casting frontage is down by several castings, say to 12. We'll discuss this further as suggested to see what we think would be the likely response of the unit taking fire.

I am wondering what Getz and Bowden intended if anyone knows.

You return fire with the remaining front rank. It is representing a sequence of events: the defender takes the casualties, decides to stay in the fight, then shoots back with the front rank still on their feet.

Cold Steel, thanks for the reply. The sequence of events makes sense, and coupled with marshalGreg's response, fits nicely.

6 figures return fire.

the 3rd rank fill the voids from the 1st and 2nd ranks and so the same amount of muskets fire because only the 1st 2 ranks of a 3 rank formation fire.

My six penny worth

At the start of the firefight I always allow the defender to fire first as its my logic that the attacker has marched up and has to halt and level their muskets which would allow the defender to get in his volley first. thereafter the sequence of fire goes with impulse.

I cannot see that anyone had mentioned that before you return fire in a firefight you may first have to take a morale test?

Attacker/phasing player always fires first except for opportunity fire by artillery. If the defender fired first on the advancing enemy they would then be standing with empty weapons and the attacker can close with them and fire at point blank range.

The rules on how casualties are assessed spell out clearly that casualties are rotated to the back before fire is returned unless the ranks behind are all lower width than the front. For example, if the formation is 4 figures wide and 3 ranks deep, the first casualty would come out of the back rank, but the second casualty would come out of the 2nd rank, and the 3rd would come out of the front. The 4th would then come out of the rear, the 5th out of the 2nd rank, and the 6th out of the front, and so on.