"US Orbats and Painting Advice 1980-1990" Topic

I have some Eureka US troops in MOPP suits. I think that the MOPP suits are close enough to look like fall/winter M65 jackets, so I am doing head swaps from gasmasks to kevlar helmets. They wear web belts and H harness and carry M16A1s.

I know the kevlar helmets started coming in around '81-82 and took a while to get to everyone. Is there a fixed date when they came in?

How long did the M16A1 still get fielded by infantry?

I already have an entire infantry company in woodland BDUs with M16A2s. So I would prefer to avoid woodland cam.

Can I get away with painting them OD Green and use them as reserve or national guard types? I still remember in '82 when woodland cam was the new rage, so I was thinking the late seventies and early eighties od green more fitting. Think the uniforms from 'Stripes' perhaps.

What are the rifle squad and platoon orbats for the eighties?

,,,and when did the M249 start to arrive in the US army???

I had a steel pot until 84 (or maybe 85), IIRC. Still had an M16A1 at that time too. I had Woodland BDUs in 81, but they weren't authorized for daily wear. It was still OG107s 90% of the time, which were universally called "fatigues".

Didn't get the Kevlar until '84 in the ROK with the 2ID. I was in the 101, '80-'83. The old OG107s, we had those until around '81 or '82. There was a time when either the BDU or OGs could be worn also including the old camo jungle fatigues. We were issued the old OD Green Jungle fatigues when we deployed to Panama. In the ROK, '84-'85 we all had the BDU. When I was with a Mech Bn/Bde at Benning, '85-'90. There was a point you could wear BDUs, camo jungles and OD jungles. Then only BDU or OD jungles. That ended about '87 ? Then it was just BDUs. You also could wear jungle boots in both the ROK and at Benning, at that time. The M249 was issued to us in the ROK in '84-'85 ? And then we had it at Benning too, when I was there. I served in all combat units not basic training or otherwise. 4 Infantry Bns, a CBT SPT Bn and finally a Bde HQ. And when I served '91-'92 in the Res, as a Bn Intel Officer of a QM Bn. We only wore BDUs … Hope that helps …

M16A1 until '85-87 seems ok, longer in the reserves and guard makes sense.

Kevlar and OD seems ok from '82-85, probably longer for reserves and guard makes sense.

Do I leave the M60s?

What does a squad look like?
Leader,two M203, xxx many riflemen and anything else?
Three squads per platoon?
Where does the M60 fit in?

Thanks for the fast responses so far.

We had Kevlar, M16A2s and woodland in 86 USMC bootcamp. The A2 wasn't "brand new" but new enough that they compared sighting it with the A1.

In the Cavalry we had one M60 per squad. That was in the Air Cav.

Your units, active, guard and reserve, are going to be a mix of uniforms. The troops coming out of AIT are going to be in camo, while the old hands tried to stay in OD as long as possible. That doesn't count the mix of field jackets.

All Alice webbing by this time, or did older patterns linger on?

I was issued all Alice when I joined in late 1980, but the LBE had the upside down Y strap and not the H.

In my Rifle Plt in the 101, '80-'81, we had 3 Squads of 11 troops each + a 3-4 man Plt HQ. Each Squad had two 5 man Fire Teams + 1 Sqd Ldr. Each Fire Tm had one M203 GL, and either an M60 MG or M47 MAW "Dragon". No SAW/AR, the Army's solution was to put a "clothes pin" bipod on a designated M16. That was your SAW(?)! I know … WDF The Rifle Company was supposed to have 3 Plts, but only had 2. Plus an 81mm Mortar Plt. With 4 tubes, IIRC, and of course a small Co HQ – 5-6 men. Each Plt had a Medic attached from HHC.

When I commanded Mech Co.(M113) '87-'89. The Squad was similar to in the 101, but each Fire Tm also had an M249 SAW. So 1 M203 GL, 1 M249 SAW, and either an M60 MG or M47 MAW. Plus an M113 with an M2 .50 Cal HMG. Each Mech Plt had 3 Squad Tracks(M113s) + 1 M113 Plt Cmd Track. The Mech Co. had 3 Plts + 2 Cmd M113s. One for the Co. Cdr and one for the XO. So a total of 14 M113s. Plus an Anti-Armor Section of 2 M901 ITVs. No mortars at Company level like in the 101. As well as an M35 2&1/2 Ton Cargo Truck and M151 Jeep. Later replaced by a HMMWV in '88. Also each Plt had a Medic M113, IIRC (?). Plus a Maintenance Tm of 1 M113 and an M578 VTR(Vehicle Tracked Recovery). Both from HHC. If anyone remembers it differently, please let us know. As I'm old and forget …

Thank you.

That\s a lot of firepower in your mech company squads!

Yes, that is a lot of firepower ! That was the great thing about Mech. You have the .50 cal on the track. We usually dismounted it in the defense. So along with 2 M203s, 2 M249s, 1 M60, 1 M47, and everyone else was packing an M16 in the Squad. You could also issue M72 LAWs, hand grenades, M18 Claymore mines, etc. … And the M113 did gave you some room to carry a whole bunch of that ordinance, etc. … Even if it made it a little [more]cramped !

I know in USMC boot camp we Kevlar, BDU and the M16A2. My Marine Corp training and unit all had the same.

The guard unit I joined several years later early 89 had Kevlar and BDU's but used the M16A1 and had M60's.

I know the USMC adopted the M16A2 a few years earlier than the army. I know of National Guardsman who had M16A1s in the first Gulf War!

It seems like M16A1/M60 and OD fatigues can cover '82-87.

If I go for more woodland painting, that will cover '82-91.