"71st Glasgow Light Infantry" Topic

Just got these based up and decided to share with you guys, hope you like them!

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There are a lot of new units to post over the coming weeks to make up for my lack of updates this year.

Best wishes, Jeremy

Very nice job. They must be a hard-fighting regiment if they're from Glasgow.

I understand that at this time they were the 71st (Highland) Regiment of Foot (Light Infantry) and they recruited from all over Scotland including Glasgow.

Later on the became the famous HLI and still associated with Glasgow.

Hi Jim, I just checked this briefly and found then as just 71st Foot. I shall stick with my all encompassing title when I refer to them as I like it, sounds more romantic!!!
Cheers for commenting guys,
Jeremy

Great work. You did the diced hat band by hand! As for the tartan trews……….

Some really good authentic touches…eg officers just wear plain shakos and the officer sash over the shoulder and not around the waist. Always seemes odd that what was indeed 71st HLI back then did recruit heavily from Glasgow………Lowland!

I won't mention the white cross belts and the pack straps and turnbacks should be unwhitened buff for a buff faced regt. They have bleached in the Spanish sun and look brilliant……

@deadhead

Regarding the Highland Regiments recruiting from Lowland Scotland.

You have to take into account the effect of the 'Highland Clearances' in the 18th and 19th Centuries. Lots of displaced people, no work, no prospects. Taking the 'Queens Shilling' seemed attractive.

This unit didn't become the HLI until 1881 when they amalgamated with the 74th, the new unit was made the county regiment of Lanarkshire, primarily recruiting in Glasgow.

The Glasgow part wasn't formally added to their title until 1923.

For a musical interlude:

YouTube link

Did lights carry flags into field?
Might be wrong but I seem to recall they didn't…

I would once have agreed with you 100%….and yet

I am the guy who once pronounced that the drummer spared inside Hougoumont had to be a legend…as French Legere Regts did not have drummers….(wrong, Light Companies of Ligne did not have etc………but Light Regts did.)

Ever heard of the 52nd? Recent book suggests they beat the Guard single handed (OK, I exaggerate and it was a much better read than the daft title)

Ensign Leeke is one of the most quoted diarists of the big day….and just have one guess what was his role……in a Light Infantry Regt…his rank is a clue

Arguably, one of the best known light units in DoW's army (they captured the "Pegasus" bridge too)…….but for Sharpe's lot of course (actually he seemed to be South Essex and not 95th anyway…never understood that…….must try to read one of the books)

Jim Duncan, your name sounds like you would be a Welshman (Oh sure). Makes perfect sense, what you tell us. Correct term for them then;

"71st (Highland) Regiment of Foot.(Light Infantry)"

The Queen's shilling? She was a bit young to be handing out a bob or two tanners in 1810-15 (God help our rebel colonial cousins trying to fathom that)

@deadhead

Apologies about the Queens shilling, we've had this one for so long now it seems like she's always been there. Nearly as long as Queen Vicky.

As for being Welsh, maybe I am. I was at a party once wearing my kilt and there were lots of people there who didn't know me. I said 'Does everyone know that I'm Welsh'. It got a laugh.

Bob=shilling, tanner=6 pence. It helps having lived in Scotland for so long

Great looking unit, Jeremy!

This particular, very uniquely dressed unit drove me crazy when I was researching it – so many unusual details, and uncertainty about what was adapted when. I have the name changes and when they occurred in my own post on the unit, and what I read from many sources indicated the transition to the designation as "Highland Light Infantry" occurring in 1811.

My own version of the unit has buff belts, but still white straps on the pack and blanket rolls – good point there, Deadhead. I also understand it was usual practice for buff faced regiments to wear buff colored pants,too, which mine do, but the modern day re-enactors have grey ones (picture in the blog post below), so whatever!

Regardless, a fun unit and the elite figures are every characterful… and have the over the shoulder sash for the officers. Evidently, they could have kilted pipers in their ranks as well (mine don't). The trews appear to have disappeared by the time they reached the peninsula, but throwing a few figures with them just adds even more variety and character to this special unit, so why not? I was sorely tempted to put trews on the officers, but didn't.

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Peter

Amid other minor notes of a finely painted unit is it significant that the colours are reversed?

Absolutely gorgeous!
I love the "old school" look of the figures and the gloss is top notch!

@Outlaw Tor

Well spotted from Cali'

Yes the colours are positioned incorrectly unless they were a Guards unit which they aren't.

A common misunderstanding.

What I love about this forum. There are the experts who can spot the minor howlers, we can learn from them for next time and sensible folk, like Jim, just appreciate the feedback, rather than expressing outrage and sarcasm.

What happened here however was…….. the 71st was about to enter the village, when it was suddenly threatened from the rear and had to turn about. The colour bearers have not yet had time to swap over and have greater priorities………….

That was it, was it not?

@deadhead

Yes, that's right, I remember this occasion explicitly. A surprise change of circumstance to the rear, it was.

All the other times however they were just plain wrong.

My theory must be right.

The colours would never have been in the second row anyway.

They were always to the front and King's to the right, Regt to the left. (Indeed, even in the Guards that was true, except in the Guards the King's colour IS the regimental…oh forget it)

They have about faced for a moment, everything is as it should be and they still look wonderful. Glad to see you do not take this too seriously…………there are those who do, you might have noticed.

That mounted occifer, he is surely Pete Postlethwaite, is he not? Sgt Wotsit from the TV Sharpe series?

This unit has reminded me how good 71st could look. I started them in Hinchliffe in mid 70s but gave up……..inspired to start again

Heh, ok, two shots, too many…really, I just pointed it out as a comment, as an aid for the future. It certainly doesn't detract from the painting. It was not a too serious comment.

This is the type of information that many ask for here and has been provided quite often by those here now.

Oh well, til next time…

Interesting. The 74th, for the main contained a heavy leavening of Glasgow men.

Outlaw Tor, what I was saying is just that. It is a great forum for pointing out if there are any minor errors and we all learn from it.

Oh hang on. I see where I went wrong…………!

Internet/email is funny if you are not extremely cautious with your choice of phrase…………..

I said "Glad to see you do not take this too seriously…………there are those who do, you might have noticed."

I fear you thought I was referring to you! No, I meant the exhibitors who howl abuse at anyone who points out any error or, even more, those who will not tolerate any criticism of Boney. Apologies, everything else I wrote, I thought, made it clear that this sort of feedback is invaluable.

I very much welcome it and apologies for the misunderstanding!

Incidentally, has anyone ever heard of a piper on campaign turned out in the diced shako, overalls etc, rather than kilt? Funcken showed one and it always struck me as a great conversion to try, but their publications were not the most infallible evidence

No. But I heard the 29th Worcesters despite being mainly English were accompanied by a piper at the behest of their colonel who liked the sound.

Deadhead. I also understand it was usual practice for buff faced regiments to wear buff colored pants,too, which mine do, but the modern day re-enactors have grey ones (picture in the blog post below), so whatever!

Regiments with buff facings wore buff breeches in regulation uniform but trousers, pantaloons,etc., were either worn as overalls over breeches or as simple substitutes in the field before they began to replace breeches altogether. So, trousers could be white, off-white, grey & blue (etc) for anyone, as supplied.

Great discussion guys, and all in good nature too. Nobody died, nobody got upset, no punches were thrown.

Some details were traded, some lessons were learnt, some future errors will be avoided, everybody wins.

Apart from that the unit was very nicely painted and a credit to the painter. Well done.

Got it, thanks, sorry for bristling at the unintentional.

No, sorry for the unintentional! I can certainly see my comment was ambiguous. This sort of thing has encouraged me to read even further on Buff faced rgts. The rumour is that even the rifle slings were thus. Snag is, how dull it looks in 28mm scale…….a very pale buff I think, for me, if I ever do get to paint my 52nd. I have so far done a single drunken officer…and that is it, one figure…….and his breeches are white, though at least his belt is Iraqi Sand;

TMP link

I have the name changes and when they occurred in my own post on the unit, and what I read from many sources indicated the transition to the designation as "Highland Light Infantry" occurring in 1811.

Of course the National Army Museum may also be wrong but here you go:

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There's also a good run through here:

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You can see that the 71st had "Highland" stuck in their name long before the Peninsular War which can be confusing as the "Light Infantry" bit doesn't come along to way later.

Unfortunately the National Army Museum regimental history pages do frequently contain errors. In this case they manage to omit the fairly crucial detail of when the 71st converted to Light Infantry. The HLI Association page also seems a little vague regarding that fact.

In June 1808, having re-organised in Ireland following the debacle in Argentina, on the eve of their deployment to the Peninsula the 71st received new colours. About the same time they acquired the addition of 'Glasgow' to their title. The 'Historical Record of the Seventy First' (1852) is silent as to why, as is Stewart of Garth (1822). As somebody pointed out there were many Highland exiles in the Glasgow, although it is also true that by that time supplies of truly Highland recruits for the army were running low.

On their return from the Corunna evacuation, the 71st were selected for conversion to a Light Infantry corps and on 20th March 1809 were re-designated '71st (Glasgow Highland Light Infantry) Regiment of Foot.'.

A year later the 'Glasgow' element was dropped and the regiment adopted the title it was to use for the next seventy years: 71st (Highland) Regiment of Foot (Light Infantry) .

As Stewart of Garth related, 'It was directed that the clothing, arming, and discipline should be the same as those of other regiments of a similar kind' but the 71st were determined to retain some aspects of their outward Highland identity (The 72nd, 73rd, 74th, 74th & 91st had surrendered theirs). Lieutenant Colonel Pack sought clarification from the Adjutant General who replied:

HORSE GUARDS, 12th April 1810.

"SIR,- Having submitted to the Commander-in-Chief your letter of the 4th instant, I am directed to state, that there is no objection to the 71st being denominated Highland Light Infantry Regiment, or to the retaining of their pipes, and the Highland garb for the pipers; and that they will, of course, be permitted to wear caps according to the pattern which was lately approved and sealed by authority."

This last was a reference to "The bonnet cocked" (Stewart again)"the pattern to which allusion is made in the above letter. This was in accordance with Lieutenant-Colonel Pack's application; and with respect to retaining the pipes, and dressing the pipers in the Highland garb, [Pack] added, "It cannot be forgotten how these pipes were obtained, and how constantly the regiment has upheld its title to them. These are the honourable characteristics which must preserve to future times the precious remains of the old corps, and of which I feel confident His Majesty will never have reason to deprive the 71st regiment."

The 'bonnet cocked' was essentially the cylindrical wool bonnet with band of 'national tartan' dicing worn at that time by Highland troops but stripped of ostrich feather decoration and blocked to ressemble the line infantry's felt shako. Hence the green 'tourie' on the crown.

There is a contemporary illustration of the 71st wearing tight Highland trubhs in Portugal in 1808 (below is a modern illustration based on it) but it seems that they did not survive the transfer. Tartan cloth was not part of the 71st LI's 'necessaries.'

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STOP PRESS: here's the original-
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Didn't think the HLI Association was that vague:

Over the next few years the regiment changed its name a number of times before becoming the 71st (Glasgow Highland Light Infantry) in 1809 and finally 71st (Highland) Regiment of Foot (Light Infantry) . In order to become Light Infantry the regiment changed the way it trained, marched and fought.

I wonder why it took until 1923 to put Glasgow back in the title?

Didn't think the HLI Association was that vague

What I meant was that it wasn't merely a name change that took place in 1809 but a change of role with all the ramifications that we know about, including, obviously, the change of name. 'A little vague' or at least not very well explained. A bit arse about face, d'you not think?

I wonder why it took until 1923 to put Glasgow back in the title?

There was a good deal of adjustment of regimental titles in the 1920s. Many Childers regiments had taken that long to accept the yoking together of the old numbered regiments that took place in 1881, the two battalions maintaining separate identities as much they could. This was particularly so in some Scottish Regiments, The Cameronians/Scottish Rifles being the most notable case and the HLI were fairly resistant, too, IIRC. In most cases one identity prevailed (Black Watch; Argylls; Gordons) or as with the Cameronians the old guard died out and good sense prevailed.

It may be that in the case of the HLI, the number of Glasgow men who served during WWI suggested the resumption of the 'City of Glasgow' title but, given the complicated traditions of Scottish regiments that's probably too logical.

I meant to add, the 71st were wearing tartan trews in 1808 because, according to Wilkinson Latham in 'Scottish Military Uniforms' (1975), they had been permitted to use the material from old kilts to make stop-gap uniforms on their return from captivity in South America. It had been common practice since the AWI to use old kilts to make trews for working dress.

It had been common practice since the AWI to use old kilts to make trews for working dress.

I should think so too, anything else would have been a shocking waste of material!

(To be read in the voice of Private Frazer, Dad's Army)

Ensign Leeke is one of the most quoted diarists of the big day….and just have one guess what was his role……in a Light Infantry Regt…his rank is a clue.

Whilst light bobs did indeed have colours, not all ensigns were entrusted with their care and not all units with officers holding an ensigny had colours. The 95th, for example, did not receive them, I understand.

The same could be said of the old red coats of all the saighdearan dearg. Soldiers'fatigue jackets and officers' field coats, night caps and foraging caps, were all made from old coats.

Carefullness is not just a Scottish virtue…Captain.

Janner

I am sure you are right. I cannot imagine 95th even taking colours on campaign. But they did fight both in line and dispersed at Waterloo, according to battalion. The colurs serveda purpose and when 52nd beat the Imperial Guard single handed, with that flanking manoeuvre (yeah, I know…………) dressing the line is stressed in every account to deliver a decisive volley. Leeke certainly describes carrying their colours. I wonder about 71st then?

"New colours were presented to the regiment on the 13th of January 1817, by Major-General Sir Denis Pack, K.C.B…..

…you former colours were mislaid after a fete given in London, to celebrate the Duke of Wellington's return after his glorious termination of the peninsular war, and your colonel General Francis Dundas has sent you three very handsome ones to replace them……"

( pp.113-114 Cannon, 'A Historical Record of the Seventy-first regiment, Highland Light Infantry…)

Really!

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None of the battalions of 95th Rifles were issued stands of colours nor, I understand, was the 5th battalion of 60th.

I've heard tell that 71st 'misplaced' their colours some time before the Hundred Days campaign when they were used to decorate a Ballroom!

Edit, I see 42flanker and I cross posted on this last point

"On the 26th April, 1808, whilst in garrison in Cork, new colours, to replace those left in South America, were presented to the SEVENTY-FIRST by Lieutenant-General John Floyd…

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What a superb resource that book is. Thanks!

I have followed it through to Waterloo. The colours were indeed to replace those lost in action in South America. So the Lights did seem, consistently, to carry regimental colours in action

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The Cannon Historical Records of the Army series, even though it was not completed, is one of the foundation stones of British regimental history, as the Duke of York and his brother William IV intended. They need to be taken with several pinches of salt, as with Stewart's Military Annals in Sketches of the Highlanders but that's half the fun. The presentation of colours speeches are often period gems.

Just clicked your link. As a complete deviation off topic, I wonder if a compilation has ever been made of captured British colours displayed around the world.

If it comes to that, Eagles taken in battle as well. Kazan Cathedral in Leningrad certainly has a few…..

69th from Quatre Bras got theirs' back via an auction, of course.

I suspect victors stand a better chance of recovery than the vanquished…..

I would therefore imagine some left in USA,after AWI. Now we learn of South America as well. I do recall something in La Musee de l'Armee, but not Napoloenic era. Interesting question. Why not post as a new topic?

If they'd taken a colour to Vitoria they would most likely have lost it. They got caught in rather a nasty ambush.

I suspect victors stand a better chance of recovery than the vanquished…

Or perhaps more to the point, victors are more likely to catalogue their trophies than the armies that lost them.

Hence the Eagles in British museums are well recorded, although not all of them were taken in battle, I think. There is less likeley to be a French list of all the eagles they lost.

Similarly, I may be wrong, but I doubt there has been much effort to make a record of British colours lost in battle or surrendered that survive in museums around the world.It certainly isn't a subject regiments care to dwell on. You might say it smacks of masochism, but somebody may have done it. There is more talk of colours being saved by being concealed and spirited away.

Some interesting battlefield details from-

Journal of a soldier of the 71st, or Glasgow regiment : Highland Light Infantry, from 1806 to 1815
archive.org/stream/journalofsold … 7/mode/2up

Spain 1810

During the night we received orders to cover the bugle and tartan of our bonnets with back crape, which had been served out during the day, and to put on our great-coats. Next morning, the French seeing us thus, thought we had retired…(p.114)

We continued to advance at double-quick time, our firelocks at the trail, our bonnets in our hands.
….The colonel cries ‘Here is food, my lads, cut away." Thrice we waved our bonnets, and thrice we cheered; brought our firelocks to the charge, and forced them back through the town.(p.131)

My shoulder was as black as coal, from the recoil of my musket; for this day, I had fired 107 rounds of ball cartirdge. Sore as I was, I slept sound as a top. (p.134)

Nice unit. Interesting history. I haven't done any buff belted Brits, so maybe I should try these

Battalion colour 71st

Battalion colour 71st

Pipers Guidon 71st

Pipers Guidon 71st

Kings colour 71st

This may be of interest

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Paul :)

Now that is a new source! "A Soldier of……..etc" is still in print, but the other two…………….

The photos are great. Regt museum?

Buenos Aires Santo Domingo convent

Taken by the Spanish.

Paul :)

Oh wow! This is the lost set of colours mentioned earlier!

I hope they are experts at conservation and use reduced lighting. Thanks so much for this!