"Charges in across a deadly field" Topic

I've recently played my second game of Across a deadly field. Both games were against different players and progressed in a similar fashion. Command rules were ok. Movement went fine although getting over fences was a little too easy. Shooting was fine. Then my opponent decides to charge and it all falls apart. The game is at a halt while they try to get their head around the charge procedure as it's so badly explained. Then strange things start to happen that the rules don't account for. For example the charged unit has to roll a fear of charge test, it becomes disordered and retreats through its supporting units. The support unit becomes shaken and now has to take a fear of charge test. The rules don't actually mention what the charging unit does if the unit it charges is forced to retreat so I assumed it would continue charging if it had the movement left to do so. The support unit now becomes disordered and retreats through the second support unit behind it and through the unit which previously retreated through it. To cut a long story short all three units end up routing because they made the mistake of supporting each other.
I might have to change the rules on charge morale and create a better crib sheet for charges. If this doesn't work then my next game may well be my last.

I can't address the charge rules but I think the fences are right. Troops were remarkably good at dismantling fences on the move. Only very well built fences – like along the Chamberburg Pike at Gettysburg – really posed any serious obstacle. And certainly no obstacle at all given the scale of AADF.

I can hop over the fence at the local park and even a 6 foot wall wouldn't prove much of an obstacle to trained troops so they probably have it about right. I suppose it's just a result of using rules that have you take a full turn to cross over a minor wall and don't get me started on rules where you have to throw a dice to get over. I've had too many troops scratching their heads for most of a game trying to figure out how to get over

Bring this up on the ADF FB page or the Johnny Reb Yahoo group. What you described doesn't sound right, but I don't have the rules handy right now.

Stout, well built fences can be an obstacle, such as the fence at Antietam along the Hagerstown Turnpike. However, most fences become a tactical issue because they can provide cover. Most rules allow units some type of cover benefit when positioned behind fences, even if it is usually a minor benefit.

It is true that cascading bad dice rolls can turn a bad situation into a terrible one, rolling the worst you can 4-5 times in a row will not help in any game system.
It sounds like you rolled alot of 2s and 3s. John Hill's idea of battlefield chaos is a little too chaotic for some.
But figuring the charge impact is simpler than other games that take as much into account- The modified morale is subtracted from the figure count, add 2D6 and the high total wins and the difference in totals is how bad the loser loses.
In my opinion, an elegant system for that level of detail.
You just need to stop rolling 2s :-)

link

You don't need too many bad throws for things to go wrong. All troops were trained so their morale level was a 5. You throw a 4 and become disordered. You retreat through your two supports which cause the retreating unit to make two morale checks now needing 7 or more. The two units retreated through make a morale check needing 5 or more. If the first one succeeds then he still has to make his fear of charge test and if he fails he retreats through the other two units causing more morale checks and the cascade goes on.

I know you're not going to believe this but I don't do facebook and I don't have a yahoo email.

Can't help with the rules, but I watched a civil war documentary once that claimed a well built fence could be quite a barrier to cross. The troops were carrying rifles and other gear. Took time for everyone to get across and then reform their ranks. Very easy to see how they could slow an advance under fire.

ddon;

You are misunderstanding the morale rules and the effect of running through formed units.
The trained unit (morale level 5) with 2 units in support would then have a morale of 3, if in cover then 2.
Still, it might roll a 2 or a 3 and retreat routed or shaken, as it is already in disorder, it would not roll again if it retreated through formed units. Those units would have to roll their basic morale with 1D6 or become disordered.
If they did become disordered and then had to take a "fear-of-charge" check, they would be at 5(trained)+ 2(disordered) MINUS 2(supporting units)and possibly another -1 for cover, ending at a 4 or a 5 morale.
Even a green unit(6) in good order, with 2 supports (alongside or behind)would only fail morale with a rolled 2 or 3, which is why I thought you only rolled those numbers.

You can look at the Yahoo JRIII Group, where discussion of ADF goes on, without joining.

Hope this helps.

Just to be clear, disordered units running through formed units does NOT cause a Morale Check. The formed units have to equal or beat their BMP (only officer helps)with ONE D6 or become disordered- it can't hurt them any more than that.

I should have expected PJ to jump in quickly with the right answer. Just to clarify further, those moral rolls are on 2d6, so in the examples above, there is a low probability of failing.

Well built fences do present an obstacle, but few farm fences were well built. Most fences were either snake/worn or post and rail construction and were pretty easy to knock down. Neither type had any mechanical fasteners like nails or screws. Clearing fences was one of the duties of skirmishers before an advance.

Thanks PJ O'Neill. I've been mixing up BMP and MMP again. That makes much more sense. Here's another one for you. I use 3 stand regiments so when the supports are to the side (e.g. 3 units in line instead of in column) and you lose one of the stands due to casualties in close combat then this would put the unit on that flank further than one inch so it is now unable to offer support even though no units have actually moved. I didn't think this was right but couldn't find anything to say it wasn't.

The 1D6 roll for disorder on interpenetration is called a Tactical Competence Test on p28 of the rulebook, the Q&A for ADF- at CigarBoxBattles.com and the suggested rules mod in the Eastern scenario book exempts skirmishers from this test.
The loss of support caused by the removal of stands is correct and represents the loss of cohesion of a Battle Line under attack.
Have fun, I think they are a great set of rules, but I am biased.

Just to echo Cold Steel. Troops dismantled fences, they didn't climb them. A typical farm fence section could be dismantled by two men in under 30 seconds. I should know I've done it! So 6 or 8 men can clear a path for an entire regiment…

There seems to be a view that I considered getting over walls and fences difficult. Nothing could be further from the truth and I consider sets of rules that force you to spend a turn or more crossing them to be mistaken.

Apart from when I was a 5 stone weakling recruit did I have any difficulty getting over a 6 foot wall unaided and we soon learnt to assist each other to make short work of a 12 foot wall. A wall of fence waist high almost takes longer to knock down than to hop over.
I've played a good deal of RF&F and found crossing obstacles to be about right and other rulesets should be aiming for the same. ADF is better than most on this point.

And yes. I found Interpenetration hidden in Tactical competency test.

I believe a unit, under fire, could find it difficult to pass thru a fence. It's hard to expect people to stand there calmly and wait while a few others go to work. I think most would react by using the fence as cover and returning fire. The officers would be hard pressed just to get them moving again.

Picketts Charge:
Henry Moore 38th NC,"…nearly 3/4 of a mile from the Federal lines…we climbed a diagonal fence running accross the field…about 200 yards from the enemy we reached another fence which confused us considerably. The fire from the enemy artillery and infantry were terrible…".
Source: Letter of Henry Moore UNC Archives Collection

J. McLeod Turner 7th NC, "Why did they not just tear down the fence…When we reached the road we had to tear down fences. We tore down the first but the second would not fall. I climbed over the fence…".
Source: Raleigh Observer

(I have Pickett's Charge At Gettsburg by Hessler but haven't read it yet. Will be interesting to learn if the above is correct)

At Fredericksburg (1862) there were sunken fences that could be crossed, but the troops still had to stop and reform. Some fences above ground could be pushed down, but it wasn't always easy. One Union officer thought they were enough of a hinderance to comment, "The fences had to be pushed or cut down…".
Source: Simply Murder

I think even a simple task can become difficult when someone else is trying to kill you.