"Area Fire and "key figures"" Topic

Hey all,

Hope everyone is doin well!

My gaming group, pretty avid TSATF players, had a conversation today about area fire and key figures. In short, we talked about the following scenario:

As we know, when using the rules about area fire, a unit picks somewhere to shoot, with number cards hitting infantry and face cards hitting key figures such as artillery, cavalry, or even native rifles. We've done it in the past where the shooter is allowed to choose which figs he/she wants removed as casualties IF they get face cards.

So, the question is….

What happens if a unit fires into an area where there ARE ONLY key figures, such as a unit of 12 cavalry?

We had a bit of an argument about this, with some of us saying that only face cards hit them, regardless of how many "hits" are scored on the dice. A few of us argued the opposite, that because "key figures" were the only possible target that they would be killed regardless of what type of card came out.

How do you all play it?

Personally speaking, I see the merits of both, that they should only die on face cards showing the difficulty it took to hit fast moving cav, or hunkered down artillery, but at the same time, if cavalry can only ever be hit using face cards even if they are the ONLY target, that makes them pretty damned powerful. They are powerful enough as it is.

Really curious to hear your thoughts!

Jared

If there are only key figures as targets then they are not treated as key figures. They're just targets. That's been my understanding.

We play it as Face Cards are aimed shots. The shooter picks.
All other cards are "into the brown".
Of course aces are needed for leaders.

We always treat artillerists as at least Class II. That gives them open order cover.
I personally do not allow "area" fire claiming the infantry in line or mob is Class I and claiming face cards as artillerists. That's a bit cheesy. If you want a shot at artillerists the whole target must be Class II.

If you are shooting at a gun battery in the open, it's a Class II and all hits count.
Heck, if the piece has gun shields, count it as Class III, but again all hits count.

The 20th Ed says that a face card is the shooter's choice. The definition of a "key figure" can change radically from one turn to the next. If the enemy has not closed, sure it's a Native riflemen. But when they are closing, and you have given swordsmen a melee bonus, make HIM a key figure. Letting the shooter choose eliminates any controversy.

Btw, when did cavalry become "key figures"?

I would think a man on a horse would be even more likely to be hit, big target.

John, err, Winston makes sense…

I am not aware of cav being key figures. The leader of the unit would be a key figure.

We've always counted artillery crew and NCOs as key figures for the regulars, and artillery crew and riflemen for natives. I agree with Rrobbyrobot, if there are only key figures in the target area, then they are not key figures.

I am not aware of cav being key figures. The leader of the unit would be a key figure.

Well, no. A leader is a leader. So he is affected only by an Ace.

I only allow an nco to be hit with an ace and then only if he is the highest ranking figure in the group.

Key figures are any non leader figure that the firing player thinks is more valuable that any other figure in the target group.

John, yes, you are correct; I'm getting my terminology mixed up.

Note with my scenario above, an artillerists is hit on any card. A face card is as good as a number card. The shooter should remove his choice first, assuming "aimed shots" as a matter of principle. It might give him a minute tactical advantage of some tiny sort. Like removing the furthest figures first do the next unit shooting can still claim etcetera.

Given the spirit with which TSATF SHOULD be played, one is absolutely forbidden to engage in cheesy tactics.
Unless your club atmosphere absolutely requires it of course. If that's the case, get me another beer!

Cavalry as a unit are not key figures. However, if it is a mixed unit of carbines/rifles and spears or swords, then the firearmed cav are key figures. If all of the cav figures are firearmed then any card causes a casualty. Leaders are never key figures, but leader figures and can only be hit on an Ace, unless its the only figure in the target area. Artillerists are key figures, unless the artillery unit is by itself in the target area. Then any card causes a casualty.

As Nick said. That's how we've played for decades.
Cheers,
JB

Hey all,

Thanks so much for all the opinions. I do want to point though that cav are considered to be key figs, as per page 26 of the rules. It says,

"a key figure is hit. A key figure is any non leader figure that the firing player may consider to be more valuable than the rest of the figures in the target group. For example, key figures could be native riflemen, cavalrymen, horse holders, artillerymen etc…"

Interestingly enough, it says the following under "Ace" on the same page:

Exception: if leaders or key figures are the ONLY targets in the target area, any casualty card can hit them. Key figures are taken out first.

While this is under Ace, I would assume the same is meant for Face Cards? If there are only key figures than they die on any card?

That's right, cavalry are distinctly singled out as Key figures.

This question comes up often in my games, too. It's made even more complicated to resolve when you try to weigh all the contradictory TS&TF rules about who must fire on what target -- the notion that fire is directed into "target areas" is contradicted by other rules (I'm referring to the 20th Anniversary Edition, plus official errata) that discuss how target priorities must be obeyed -- "closest threatening enemy unit within their weapon range or closing into Close Combat in the target area must be the immediate target" So what happens if Key Figure or Leader cards are turned up but there are no Key figures or Leaders in that "immediate target"? Those shots just magically seek out a figure outside that targeted area? It often makes no sense on the tabletop.

I try to be sensible and allow people to fire at the eligible unit or units of their choice, with small arms fire (artillery fire must fire at a single target, as per the rules). Then, within the rules defining Key figures, I treat Key figure casualties as figures that the firer gets to choose and non-Key figures as figures chosen by the owner. I treat cavalry as Key figures but if there is only cavalry in the possible target area, then I treat cavalry the same as Scouts -- a Key figure face card must be drawn to hit a cavalry figure, and I treat gun crews at all times the same way. This makes cavalry harder to pick off, which I find workable since those units are smaller anyway, and it makes it more difficult to "snipe" at gun crews and ignore adjacent figures. I believe gun crews (already small) should be afforded the same protection Scouts receive, since they are not operating in a formation as such.

And I always treat Leader hits as randomly determined among ALL eligible Leaders in a target unit or area, I don't like the rules mandating that the highest-ranking leader is always the one hit. (Magic bullet time again.)

I have not used the Pass-Through Fire rule either, it tends to defeat the purpose of the random movement and fire sequence, which otherwise works pretty effectively in these rules. But opportunity fire, whenever I've tried it, makes the mechanic crash and seems too arbitrary as written.