"How late were 'early' Germans?" Topic

Aurelian will be here any month now, so I need to know my Germans before it materialises.

Most ancients rules army lists have Early Germans terminating in 250 or 260AD – right in the middle of the 'crisis of the third century'. Suddenly there are numerous new tribes and everyone's become sartorially inclined.

Should I use early German figures exclusively for all Germanic armies or specific Franks, Goths etc., is there overlap such that early and later types can be be mixed within units or armies,or should I use only the later types?

IMHO,how could you go wrong with mixing Early Germans with later ones? Its not as if on June 12th 250AD,at 2pm,everyone dropped the top knot and went to knots on the left side,and anyone who didnt lke the left side but favored the right were outcasts. I'm sure that animal skins and big clubs faded rather slowly.

See, I would have said 1939 to early '43.

I was chomping at the bit to answer this question, then I realized it is about Ancients! FOr the record, I agree with skinkmasterreturns.

Damon.

You can do some searching for images from the column of Marcus Aurelius. Already the Germans are depicted as not too wild looking and mostly with tunics and trousers. That's half a century or so earlier than the period you are interested in.

The Germans on M. A's column have oval shields, though it is always debatable whether Roman artwork shows actual appearance or a stereotype. The shields are very similar to those of the Dacians on Trajan's column which might mean they actually were or it might be the artist showing what everyone expected a 'barbarian' to look like.

OTOH, round shields get more and more common. Tacitus says some tribes used them in his day (though he could mean rounded i.e. oval shields, as he uses scutum not clipeus). If nothing else, this suggests that within tribes certain shield types predominated, so I would probably have everyone in a unit with similar shields.

The Allamanni who invade Italy in 552 AD are described by Agathias as bare chested, so It would be ible to have guys with no shurt quite late. The biggest differences are:
Very unlikely to have total nudity fir some warriors after 200 AD , oerhaps even earlier.
Lijely oval and then round shields from 100 onwards. The German types in Roman service on Trajan's column appear to have oval shields, though we would ge guessing as to whether these are Roman issue. Other items of their kit are Germanic, wolf and bear headdresses, openwork helmets, clubs.
One big difference with Later Germans is that the infantry mimic Roman heavy javelins which are called bebrae by Vegetius, angons by others. That appears in the fourth century. The Allamanni I spoke of above are throwing angons and assaulting with a single handed francisca axe. That s quite different from the 'early' Germans long spear and bundle of light javelins.
Another key difference is the adoption if a lot more archery in the third century and the improvement in the numbers and ability of their cavalry.
As to the tactical deployment of troops. Skink is right to say there is not a date when all these changes are mandated, but by about 300 they have evolved to look and act a bit different from the Germans of Caesar and Tacitus. However, the description we have of battle in the VIth century has them charging in and fighting with impetus and shock, whereas Earlier Germans are more into rushing in and then pulling gack to come again, more javelin throwing earlier too.

No German I know would ever be late, very punctual chaps the Jerrys that's why we have the vickers set up and waiting, you never know when they about to arrive with those evil looking bayonets eh!
Toodle-pip Cheerio chaps :)

Wouldn't a "late", "early" German simply be "on-time"?

I am trying to work out how "feasible" could be mis-spelt badly enough to get bleeped …..

Didnt notice that one ! Generally I hit keys either side of the target .

Nein minutes!

(Sorry…….)

Gott in himmel!