"Australian Defence Force with F90 assault rifles" Topic

"Thales's F90 rifle is to enter Australian Defence Force service, marking a new era for the Australian soldiers and their weapons. The Australian Department of Defence has signed a AUD 100 million (USD 74M) contract with Thales to produce 30,000 rifles, 2,500 SL40 grenade launchers, spare parts and various ancillaries at Thales's facility in Lithgow, regional NSW.

The F90 is a light, versatile weapon that meets the highest standards of performance and reliability, and has been well-received by soldiers in various trials, announced Thales in a statement.

Kevin Wall, Thales's Armaments Vice President in Australia, said: "Our soldiers deserve the best possible equipment, and the F90 delivers on all counts. Enhancing the Austeyr is the most cost-effective way to deliver a capability upgrade, and we've worked closely with Defence and Army units to design, test and manufacture this world-class weapon. We're now looking forward to getting it into troops' hands as quickly as possible."
"The F90 is born from over 100 years of engineering and manufacturing expertise at Lithgow, and this is the latest chapter in Lithgow Arms' long contribution to Australian military operations." In Australian Defence Force (ADF) service, the rifle will be known as the Enhanced F88 (EF88), marking a significant enhancement of the original Austeyr F88…"
Full article here
link

Amicalement
Armand

Looks cool, that's the important part.

Our soldiers deserve the best possible equipment, and the F90 delivers on all counts.

Then why is it still 5.56mm SS109 ammunition? Afghanistan and Iraq both showed the shortcomings of this round, especially beyond 200m. And at very close quarters it has problems as well, "burning through" if it doesn't hit bone.

I thought 6.8mm was being looked at for future infantry weapons?

Dal.

Most firefights take place below 200m, even in Afghanistan.

For snipers you have MMGs, counter-snipers, and mortars.

As to a caliber change, well Australia isn't going to shift until the US (and NATO) does.

This new rifle looks like it still doesn't take STANAG magazines. Which should be the real "WTF?".

G'day, Quaker.

It's the contacts that don't happen at <200m, such as spray and pray from a hillside 300m+ away, that the boys used to talk about. True, the MAG-58's and .50 cal's could reach out. But from a confidence standpoint knowing your rifle could also reach is important. A couple of the real old crusties even talked about bringing 1 or 2 SLR's back per section, but that to me seems like more complication than help.

As for STANAG mag's, I understand why they stuck with the Steyr's. Much more reliable, far more robust, much easier to maintain and virtually immune to the lips being deformed and causing misfeeds (not as big a problem with the stronger metal used for the newer magazines, but there were still older magazines in the system just a couple of years ago). And, unless they've come up with a new mag' that has a cover, you don't need a dirt-entry slot in the mag' to keep track of your rounds. True, compatibility with the M-4/M-16 families would be nice, but reliability trumps compatibility in my book.

Cheers, mate.

Dal.

Dal, we practiced and hit at up to 500m with 5.56mm and iron sights all the time. It is a function of training. Now with ACOGs and Elcans it should be childs play for moderately trained troops.

Yes different calibers have differing affects, but when hit by a 5.56mm, if it doesn't kill outright, it will still be enough to incapacitate.

'Spray ad Pray, seriously,,,?
If I caught any one in my platoon pretending they were at a Beirut wedding reception, they'ld get a boot to the head right quick.

Only accurate rifle fire is interesting.

G'day, TroopWO.

We used to fire deliberate and snap at 500m on the range as well, using SLR's then the F-88, when it came in. There was a quite healthy "V Bull Pool" at 500m for the highest tally at AASAM and Tri-Service shoots- it topped $1,100.00 USD at one shoot (I came close, but never got my hands on the pot). And I know that if a 5.56 hits you at 500m it will do a bit more than just hurt. Depending on where you get hit, you could be better off being hit at 50m than 500m.

But what I'm talking about is the effectiveness of the round off the range, eg engaging enemy moving through/in concealment/light cover. The blokes (SGT's Mess chat or talking while working at my old battalion) typically used expressions such as "can't seem to get on to them, had to use the MAG-58" and "Steyrs won't punch through scrub". These blokes know how to use their weapons, so it can't be universal numptiness. And it's not having a hate on the F-88, either. While there's still a few recalcitrant SLR lovers marking time until retirement, the F-88 proved itself in Somalia to be reliable and generally fit for service.

The lads perceive a shortcoming, however.

I never used 5.56 in anger (been on the wrong end of a blue-on-blue and seen the result of 5.56mm NATO, though), so I listen to those that have. What they're saying gives me reservations about the round's effectiveness in some situations, one of them being effectiveness at medium to long range.

Your experience may differ. That's not unusual, as different nations' tactics and usage can vary their perceptions of a weapon's strengths and weaknesses. (Having carried an MAG-58 as a section gun, I hate the weapon- give me an M-60 any day- but when we had Poms on exchange with us, they felt the opposite.)

"Spray and Pray" was referring to an Afghan (not necessarily Talib) habit of spraying a couple of bursts from some hills, usually when the dig's were going out or coming back to the FOPB. Not what you'd call a major threat, but not something you could ignore, either.

"Beirut wedding reception"- I like that!

Cheers.

Dal.

No problem Dal.
I started on the SLR myself too. (FNC1 in Canada, same inch pattern as the Lithgows.) I switched over to the C7, which is basically an M16A2 but with safe, semi and auto instead of the US burst switch and it also retained the original M16A1 rear sight. We did the same, fixed or known range and snap shooting. 500m was quite do-able so long as you were going for central torso hits. The modern optics let you dial in your accuracy a great deal.

Sometimes shot placement, where you hit a target, is more valuable than what you hit the target with.

I am sure there are folks out there who tell stories about, "I needed to fire a second burst of fifty to take him out". That will happen with all calibers.

Funny that you preferred the M60. I never got the chance to look at one. Strangely enough, I used to love the C5 which was a Browning M1919 with an air cooled barrel on a tripod in 7.62mm NATO. Give me a screw driver, a nickel, a dime and a rag and prepping one was an art form. While I enjoyed the MAG58, all those specialized specific tools used to drive me bonkers.

While I loved the SLR, I was no recoil junkie.
I don't miss carrying it!

Cheers
Rob

G'day, Rob. I've carried the L4A4 Bren, MAG-58, MG-3 (only for a day or so) and M-60 and, as a section gun, the M-60 beats all the others. It's well balanced enough that you don't need to use a sling to patrol with it, it gives a good beaten zone and it's simple- no gas adjustments, nice rate of fire and good, solid foresight. It does need to be cleaned well and it tends to smoke a bit, as it needs a lot of oil to keep going, but it just keeps on going when needed, if you take care of it. However, all the others needed as much care, the gas system on the MAG-58 in particular being an absolute bleep.

I miss the old SLR. I only carried for a couple of years, before getting the gun and then, as SECT 2IC, the M-203, but for years I used it in the unit rifle teams. Again it was an uncomplicated, reliable and accurate weapon.

For some reason we used the M-60 and MAG-58 rather than the Browning .30cal in MG PL. 6RAR may have trialle3d it, from memory, but went back to the MAG-58. That's where the MAG-58 really shone- mounted on a tripod with a C2 sight, we could engage out to 2400m using indirect fire. You could do the same with the M-60, but it started to have problems after 10 belts or so, whereas turning up the gas on the MAG usually fixed the problems.

Cheers, mate.

Dal.

I wonder if the US army will ever adopt a bullpup rifle?