| PCS Dane | 31 Jul 2015 9:59 a.m. PST |
Yes, I know it's been discussed a no. of times on this site before, but just recently this was released by BF: link It more or less states that the incentive items from the KS, valued at three figures for most backers, will not be delivered… I have enjoyed both DUST and certainly FoW by BF. I was super excited when BF got the rights to produce the games, and even more so when this KS was announced… I now have trouble trusting any of the business moves made by Battlefront, and have a very weird tase in my mouth when BF happily announces new FoW products while more than a 1000 backers are yet to get what they paid for… I, for one, will NOT entrust BF with neither my confidence nor my money in the future…! |
| emckinney | 31 Jul 2015 10:49 a.m. PST |
It more or less states that the incentive items from the KS, valued at three figures for most backers, will not be delivered… That's not what I read: "we have already contributed our share of the incentives (and shipped the majority already with the balance due with Wave 2)" Isn't the whole thing that Dust Studios isn't going to cover the incentive items that they put up? I'm completely uninvolved with Dust, the KS, either of the companies, etc., etc., so I may be missing something. (I've followed the saga a little for the gossip value.) |
| The Beast Rampant | 31 Jul 2015 11:50 a.m. PST |
I also have no stake in this, and I also have no idea who to believe- I have read a lot of official press releases, all of the "he said / she said" variety, and followed the discourse of the angry mob.
But I would like to know for matters of future dealings with either company (or not, as the case may be).
|
| Weasel | 31 Jul 2015 12:53 p.m. PST |
I don't think either of the companies comes off looking particularly great in this. |
| nazrat | 31 Jul 2015 1:23 p.m. PST |
Looks to me like BF has met their obligations and the other two guys had eyes much bigger than their budgets, and now they want the Big Boy to take the fall for their failings. BF has never let me down on anything I have ever ordered from them so I will continue to believe in and support them. |
| Dynaman8789 | 31 Jul 2015 2:53 p.m. PST |
Good thing for BF Kickstarters are so poorly defined in the law – claiming your partner did not live up to their part of the bargain when a customer buys a product just doesn't fly as an excuse not to deliver otherwise. This is dependent on the terms of the original KS of course. |
| Onomarchos | 31 Jul 2015 2:55 p.m. PST |
Completely agree with you Nazrat. Mark |
| raylev3 | 31 Jul 2015 3:02 p.m. PST |
never had a problem with BF…always excellent service. And they always more than fixed any problem I had with their product. |
| MDIvancic | 31 Jul 2015 3:56 p.m. PST |
Dust Studio's is a train wreck. They couldn't work with BF or FFG. To bad, after two restarts I'm done. The miniatures and rules were great, but every couple of years every goes to hell as they ended up looking for a new partner. Sold all my stuff off last year. |
| Weasel | 31 Jul 2015 4:17 p.m. PST |
It's like the old thing: If all your girlfriends are crazy, maybe the problem isn't every single girlfriend, it's you :) |
| Cyrus the Great | 31 Jul 2015 5:43 p.m. PST |
@PCS Dane,
So Dust Studio gets a pass from you? |
| The Beast Rampant | 31 Jul 2015 9:45 p.m. PST |
Dust Studio's is a train wreck. They couldn't work with BF or FFG. To bad, after two restarts I'm done. Yeah, that DOES seem pretty telling. What was their deal with FFG? |
| PCS Dane | 01 Aug 2015 6:02 a.m. PST |
@Cyrus I'm generally frustrated that the two companies are not able to deliver promised items to us backers, when they had no problems taking our money. The general rep. of DUST Studio is somewhat tainted already on account of them not being able to work with FFG, which has a brilliant rep. So, yes, they will get a pass…. However, BF has been my go-to for 15mm gaming for years on end, and have a huge business going. I find it hard to believe they are not able to just make this go away iot. support the people who put their faith in them by backing… So I guess I feel more let down by BF, as it is… Am I making sense? |
| Winston Smith | 01 Aug 2015 7:47 a.m. PST |
No.  |
| Cyrus the Great | 01 Aug 2015 10:01 a.m. PST |
@PCS Dane, The general rep. of DUST Studio is somewhat tainted already on account of them not being able to work with FFG, which has a brilliant rep. So, yes, they will get a pass…. So you knew the reputation of Dust Studios in advance and still went in on the joint venture kickstarter anyway? Were you depending on the reputation of Battlefront to keep Dust Studios in line? I'm just trying to make sense of your feelings of disappointment in one and not the other. |
| Winston Smith | 01 Aug 2015 10:16 a.m. PST |
To me it looks like Battlefront got taken in as much as the punters.
Kickstarters are shady enough without partners. |
| Weasel | 01 Aug 2015 1:53 p.m. PST |
SOme of it is just the "how many points of failure" factor. Two companies, two places things can go wrong. |
| angryboy2k | 01 Aug 2015 8:26 p.m. PST |
Battlefront self-admittedly used ~$220,000 to pay off an outstanding debt to Dust Studios for the Achilles wave of products. (JP Brisigotti stated this in update 107 – a backers'-only update unfortunately. The Achilles wave is referred to as the "the pre-agreed W9.1, W9.2 and W9.3 payment" – pre-agreed because both parties agreed in writing that this debt would be paid off using funds generated by the Kickstarter). Dust also verified this in all the mudslinging that's gone on over this, even going so far as to release the actual contract between the two parties. The only differences between the two parties' stories are that:
1. DS claims that BF should have paid this debt AFTER paying to fulfill the kickstarter, while BF claims DS suggested BF pay early for some reason or another.
2. DS claims BF's debt was sold to a factoring bank, and it was the bank that BF had to pay back; BF claims the debt was paid directly to DS. So all in all, Battlefront profited from the Kickstarter to the tune of >$200k, got itself out of debt, and has now decided that the backers are SOL as there's no additional money with which to buy the stretch goals from DS. DS for its part has had all debts and expenses covered for product shipped out to date, while also reneging on the verbal agreements Paolo made with Battlefront (anyone who thinks Paolo wasn't talking to BF during the Kickstarter couldn't have been following the progress of the campaign very closely) by hiding behind the company's CEO – a man who appears happy to sacrifice the goodwill of nearly 1500 backers in exchange for a few thousand dollars of stretch goals. |
| oneofmany | 03 Aug 2015 2:08 p.m. PST |
Hello all, :)
If you look into the incentive list BF pout out you will see a nice 50/50 split. Yet if you think of the premium deals where every things is prepainted for twice the money you can clearly see that there is no 50/50 and DS has to take the knife on those. Next on the list is the part where DS did made the wave2 products without financial benefit of the kickstarter ( the kickstarter was to get financial freedom to produce armys in one go instead of box after box). After that production BF took 6 months and a update where they offered the backers old stock instead of very little money back to pay up to DS for wave2…. (that deal is also in the closed backers update. just for info. Thanks. |
| badger22 | 03 Aug 2015 9:34 p.m. PST |
So glad I gave this one a miss Owen |
| Thomas Nissvik | 04 Aug 2015 4:30 a.m. PST |
You should be, Owen. Still love the minis but I think BF and DS have seen the last cent of my money. And I'm lucky, I actually got some of what I paid for. Others chipped in a lot more and have seen nothing. |
| Richard Busby | 05 Aug 2015 12:15 p.m. PST |
I'm done with Battlefraud. Anyone want to bu some FoW stuff cheap? |
| Lion in the Stars | 05 Aug 2015 7:58 p.m. PST |
@Richard: only if you have some of the Vietnam or Arab-Israeli stuff. I (still) need some more UH1Ds, an AH1, and whatever American armor or infantry you've got. |
| fightcitymayor | 06 Aug 2015 6:31 a.m. PST |
It was Battlefront that held the Kickstarter so it is Battlefront that is on the hook for what was promised to backers. What goes on behind the scenes is not my concern, all I want is what is owed. So I'm glad the FoW cheerleaders are sticking by their Dear Leader, but BF is clearly and unmistakably in the wrong here, and instead of confronting the issue head-on they take the passive-aggressive route of acting like this is all okay and "Well, we consider this KS concluded." Sorry, chaps, but as long as there are items backers haven't received (and currently there are a boatload) then this is far from "concluded." |
| Thomas Nissvik | 06 Aug 2015 6:36 a.m. PST |
As fightcitymayor said, the deal was with BF. They made a promise, they took our money. Both DS and BF has handled all this in a way that means I will never ever support them again, but my agreement was with BF and they have thus committed fraud. |
| Part time gamer | 19 Aug 2016 10:13 p.m. PST |
I never invested in the game Dust Tactics but the mini's looked great.
Im only adding this because I recently went to the 'creator's' website directly, just to see what was there. Yep still online… It offered a 'few' models, MOST of the store was selling Primed models or (worse) Prepanted. I say worse because the lowest cost prepainted listed was $100. USD Unbelievable, for ONE plastic model. If I pay 100 bucks, for One of anything.. it better do more than 'sit there'. I would say..
IF you loved the game, why sell them? KEEP what you have, watch MM / Warstore and the like.. maybe find a few remainders. And just keep enjoying the game. As for BF, they sure made a 'great announcement' about BF taking over from FFG.. but IIRC, "Dust" was never even listed on their website.
I dont think the Vietnam, Arab-Israeli 'spin-offs' went as planned for BF either. Not much seems to be have changed for months with them. |
struggles to complete his SISI truck force.
