Gunfreak | 29 Jul 2015 3:05 a.m. PST |
I guess it depends on how you term a civil war. We do have at a minimum we have 2 barons wars. wars of the roses(1 or many?) English/British civil war(1 or 3) What about the glorious revolution? or Jacobite risings? |
Rabbit 3 | 29 Jul 2015 3:11 a.m. PST |
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Pictors Studio | 29 Jul 2015 3:35 a.m. PST |
The Glorious Revolution was more of a Dutch Invasion than a civil war. I would imagine you would find collaborators in many invasions here and there, that doesn't make them civil wars. The subsequent war in Ireland, may be, the so-called Revolution itself is not. It also depends on how you want to define Britain, if it is just the archipelago then it would be less than if you include the Empire which would also include things like the American War of Independence and the Indian Mutiny, or arguments could be made to include them. |
advocate | 29 Jul 2015 3:40 a.m. PST |
I presume you are talking about post-conquest. And as a working definition for 'civil war' : an attempt by military means to change the head of government (thus ruling out peasant and noble revolts that were aimed at simply improving the lot of those that revolted, and the coups such as those against Edward II and Richard II). Consider all the attempts by one party to gain/regain the throne to be a single instance. Off the top of my head: Stephen and Matilda/Henry (the Anarchy) King John – King of France invited by a party of nobles to take over Henry III – Baron's War(s) Henry IV – Owain Glendwyr (attempt at least to split Wales from England Wars of the Roses (up to and including Henry VII) The Great Civil Wars (1639-1660) The Jacobite Wars (1685-1746). Including the Monmouth Rebellion Note that I've ignored Ireland completely; also Anglo-Scottish wars prior to the 1607 and Scottish civil wars before that date. I've probably missed several even given my own restricted definition. |
Patrick R | 29 Jul 2015 3:51 a.m. PST |
The question depends on how you define "Civil War" and if you include stuff like dynastic struggles and foreign interventions. |
Lt Col Pedant | 29 Jul 2015 4:31 a.m. PST |
What about 'The Troubles' in Northern Ireland from 1969 onwards? |
advocate | 29 Jul 2015 4:32 a.m. PST |
Patrick, I'll agree it's tricky. Ruling out 'dynastic struggles' seems a bit harsh when the protagonists could call on a large proportion of the country's people to fight in them. The Wars of the Roses (for want of a better name) were a dynastic struggle, but included Towton, the bloodiest battle fought on English soil. Foreign interventions when requested by a significan proportion of the country (or at least the ruling class) don't seem to me to be an objection, especially if they were already fighting. Billy, Ireland is not part of Britain, so I ignored it in my post(whether it should be part of the UK is of course a point of contention). |
Moe Ronn | 29 Jul 2015 4:56 a.m. PST |
I believe you'll find they are called "Football Matches". |
getback | 29 Jul 2015 5:37 a.m. PST |
Battle of Shrewsbury 1403. Rebellion against the king – Civil War ? The aim was probably to replace Henry IV with the Earl of March; so it is a civil war. |
vtsaogames | 29 Jul 2015 5:48 a.m. PST |
I think of the Glorious Revolution more as a coup d'etat. |
LesCM19 | 29 Jul 2015 6:01 a.m. PST |
Slight aside, some try to add a certain spin on things by incorrectly referring to The English Civil War as The English Revolution. |
Oh Bugger | 29 Jul 2015 6:27 a.m. PST |
Gildas complained about civil wars in his time. |
Lt Col Pedant | 29 Jul 2015 6:42 a.m. PST |
advocate: I referenced NORTHERN IRELAND (Ulster) which is still part of the UK/Britain, (or was yesterday). |
Oh Bugger | 29 Jul 2015 6:49 a.m. PST |
The formulation is Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland so UK and Britain are not interchangeable terms and Northern Ireland is 3 counties short of an Ulster. |
bruntonboy | 29 Jul 2015 9:30 a.m. PST |
This may explain this, on the other hand it may not. YouTube link |
Lt Col Pedant | 29 Jul 2015 10:29 a.m. PST |
My apologies … of course, there's only the Wee Six. But if Northern Ireland is neither UK nor British, why were British Soldiers stationed there from the 1970s until recently? And Loyalists fighting Nationalists within a given territory would constitute a civil war? No? |
advocate | 29 Jul 2015 1:07 p.m. PST |
It's UK by current law, and the whole is part of the British Isles; it just isn't Britain. No part of (the island of) Ireland is part of (the island of Great) Britain. Clear as mud! |
Gwydion | 29 Jul 2015 4:08 p.m. PST |
Wow! Billy – you have just wandered into Blue Fez territory. Stay exactly where you are. Don't move. There will be a mine clearance team with medical evacuation units arriving presently. DON'T MOVE! |