"Jacobite Rebellion question" Topic

My question is: Did the French promise Prince Charlies help and then didn't give it as promised or Did the Prince think that the French were going to help more than they really did or something else?
Tom Semian
Avalon, Pa. 15202

They sent troops some landed others were prevented from doing so.

The Bonnie Prince didn't expect to need that much French help. He was sure England would rise in his favor, the rightful king!

At one point, Maurice de Saxe was planning on sending a substantial force of French troops to land in England, but bad weather scuttled the transport vessels and the planned invasion never occurred

That pesky Royal Navy interdicted French vessels carrying supplies to the Jacobites. Some got through. More did not. This, and the weather prevented large scale French intervention.

And, yeah – what Zippy said. Must have been quite the shock to march deep into England and realize that the people were content with their current monarch.

"And, yeah – what Zippy said. Must have been quite the shock to march deep into England and realize that the people were content with their current monarch."

It is Christopher Duffy's view that popular opinion in England tended to favour the Prince. You can read about it in his book The'45.

Duffy's views may be correct but it's one thing to be sympathetic and quite another to take up arms. The fact that the Manchester regiment when raised was only about 200 strong suggests that this sympathy was muted. After all, you are going to hang for treason if this all goes horribly wrong.
But if the Prince had ventured south from Derby towards London then I think many more might have joined the cause.

Yes I think that is true enough on both counts. England was also a pretty demilitarised society you had to be pretty desperate to take up soldiering.

So, those that have responded to my above question (not those who have gone in a different direction and started discussing English sympathy towards the Jacobite cause)----The French did try to send significant military aid, but the Royal Navy and weather slowed this aid to a trickle?
TomS.

Only one bunch of French troops Irish and Scots in French service were actually landed.

How do you fight historical battles? Wasn't like there were really big ones were there?

Big enough for tabletop battles I'd say certainly you would not call them skirmishes. There is also the joy of what if?

Reeves – not Napoleonic sized battles, but Prestonpans, Falkirk and Culloden, plus numerous skirmishes and what-ifs make it perfectly gameable. And Duffy's '45 gies a more-or less day by day account of the march into England.

From memory, I think Charlie set out from France with two ships but was intercepted and only one arrived. At least some further supplies arrived later on.

The biggest battle was Culloden, some 8,000 Hanoverian vs. 7,000 Stuart troops. At 1:30 scale you could do every unit with less than 300 per side on the table.

The '45 is quite gameable. Frank Chadwick produced a two volume set for V&B, available through Old Glory. There is also "Raise the Clans: A wargamers guide to Jacobite Britain" by Martin Hackett.

My undertstanding fo the French situation is that Charles felt he would be recieving aid from France. This failed to arrive. Some was dispatched but either interdicted by the Royal Navy or kept off by storms, some was never sent.

Guys,
For those fellows who have tried to answer my above, initail question---I Thank You!
For those others who are going somewhere completely different, How about doing it elsewhere!
TomS.

Well, Oh gave you the full, correct answer in his first post. Sorry if I sent the thread on a tanget.

France viewed the Jacobites as a means to distract British troops from the Low Countries. They never envisaged a major campaign in Scotland. Charles had a company of " Grassins de mer" or "Maurepas' compagnie" on the second vessel when he landed, but it was severely damaged in a firefight with the RN and didn't make it to the landing. Later when the rising showed some success they tried to back it up, but too late.

TMP threads are like children. Once you create them they have a tendency to take on lives of their own.

It has been years since I studied the 45. My understanding is that the French were originally lukewarm on the venture. There were plans that Saxe would invade, but when circumstances frustrated these plans, I don't believe the French were too upset. So Charles set out with minimal help and turned out to be more successful than anticipated. At that point the French did try to commit some resources to the Stuart cause. Only some got through and they arrived late.

The ulterior motive of the French was to tie up troops. It worked with or without direct support. The '15 is underrated as a period. The battles were few, but the campaign itself yields lots of possiblities, including, potentially support from Charles XII and the Swedes. Imagine Highlanders and Swedes as an opponent.

Check out Red Sash Games. Their game support files provide information you will NEVER find anywhere else. We tried the game itself, but because we only got together like once a month, it moved slower than real time.

Highlanders in most games systems are over rated. The romanticised image tends to win out over the historic bunch of less than willing rabble that comprised 80% of their muster

@ Sandinista: I've got to agree with you to some degree. Highlanders needed the discipline the British Army conferred to become truly useful troops.

hmmmm Killiecrankie anyone? Prestonpans? and the Highland wing of the Jacobite case at Sherrifmuir?