"Graf Zeppelin/Kriegsmarine Aircraft?" Topic

I'm building a model of the Graf Zeppelin and reading about the aircraft it might have used and it occurs to me .. would the Me-110 have made a good torpedo bomber?? It is not much bigger than a Ju-87, I've even seen a Focke-Wulf Fw 190 with a torpedo … why not a Me-110??

Thoughts?

Because the Kriegsmarine had a perfectly good carrier torpedo bomber in the Fieseler Fi 167.

Mark

The Fieseler Fi 167 indeed .. but I have had trouble finding them in 1/700 (or 1/720) scale.

The Bf110 has a much longer wingspan, which is not desirable for a carrier aircraft. Because the engines were in the wings, the minimum span with folding wings would be far greater than that of the Ju87 (making the assumption that the hinges could be incorporated fairly near the engines, which may not be true--the structural and mechanical details matter.

The Bf110 is also a much heavier aircraft, so I'd be wary of problems like takeoff run, landing gear strength, etc.

I can not think of any World War 2 twin engined carrier borne aircraft. Were there any?

PS I don't think the Nitchell raid counts.

The F7F Tigercat was twin engined and there was a carrier capable variant, though as it was intended for CVs the size of the Midways the carrier variant was developed / deployed post war. It was always in the specs though.

I see no reason you'd fill up hangar space with anything the size of a Bf110 when the more compact FW190 was torpedo-capable. Stuka too probably – the bomb payload was similar although the range was a bit deficient.

The Fi-167 was passed over as the months, then years passed. Eventually, the Kriegsmarine settled on the BF-109T, and the JU-87C. I don't think they seriously looked at the FW-190, but I could be wrong. One thing about the Fiesler, depending on the wind strength and flap setting, you could almost hover in it. Not a bad thing if you are sub hunting.

For 1/600 I'm using the Fox as a stand-in for the Fi-167. Tail isn't quite right but it works for me.

There was also going to be a Me-155 to replace the 109T but it didn't go into production before the GZ was mothballed.

The Me-110 and TBF Avenger are very close in wing span and length, and close in weight. I know the Avenger's wings could be folded closer to body than would be possible with a wing folding Me-110 variant. But still I figured it was worth the "what if".

I always thought that, at that scale, you could glom a Fi 167 by adding thin plastic biplane wings to a Stuka.

Fatman

Does anyone make the Fi-167 in 1/144th scale?

Both the Bf110 and Fw109 were fairly "hot" landing aircraft. If either were to be strengthened enough to use an arrester hook, it wouldn't be capable of carrying a torpedo (if the 110 ever was).

The ship itself is also a deciding factor. Graf Zeppelin was on the small side for a carrier, at least as far as flight deck and hangar went. Smaller than the USN Independence class CVL's. It probably couldn't have operated either the Bf110 or Fw109, and the former would have taken up too much hangar space, limiting the already small air complement.

And the British would have sunk it four days after it left Kiel…

Yes of course-with Swordfish and Gladiators. Or maybe Skuas for fighter cover. The RN carrier air groups were rather small early in the war.

Fozzybear- find a copy of John Baxter's Tragerflotten if you really want to go crazy. He hypothesized using the little HE-100 on German carriers. No ME-110s but a host of other cool things in his two books

ptdockyard any idea where I can find a copy of Tragerflotten?

I ask this because I have the Data Book but not the first book although my friend did have a copy of it once but he let someone borrow it and they never returned it.

"I can not think of any World War 2 twin engined carrier borne aircraft. Were there any?"

….. Doolittle's B25s (he said with tongue in cheek) ;-]

B

Thank you ptdockyard I will keep an eye out for John Baxter's Tragerflotten, that's exactly what I need. Thank you rmaker, the me-110 and fw-190 being "hot" landing planes is the kinda thing I needed to remember ..

Capt Gideon

I hunted the first one for over a year. Checked EBay every 2-3 days. Finally got a copy a year ago. The Data Book actually is more useful in my opinion.

The one thing I don't like with the series is the total lack of Italian carriers. The Italians participate in Germany's carrier squadrons. As the producer of the only 1/1200 Bonfiglietti CV, I am partial to RE2001s in blue😉

I'm aware of attempts to make Sea Mosquitoes, although I'm not aware of how successful they were.