"Age of Sigmar and the Warhammer world." Topic

I actually don't care about GW Throwing away the old WFB Rules. I have not played them since 1st ed.

I do, however, love the WFB setting. A lot.

I still own and play Mordheim and WFRP in two of its three incarnations. I loved the angry hardscrabble nature of it. One of my players ran a Rat Catcher as a character.

It wasn't High Fantasy, it was a muddy, dung smeared bitter world full of treachery, sorcery, and very sharp pointy things. A very believable and unique setting.

And they threw it out to create a setting that does..what? I mean yes, now you can have mystic deathless warrior Space Fantasy Marines. Let's face it, 40k is already a Fantasy Game with minor scifi trappings. Why make your Fantasy Game that, too?

They have violated a basic rule of marketing. Make your product unique in the marketplace and do it faster and cheaper than the competition. They are actually now competing with themselves. AoS is aimed at the 40k crowd. Now it will cannibalize 40k sales.

Rookie boneheaded move, like everything else GW has done over the last few years.

Someone over there needs to read "Blue Ocean Strategy" and "Purple Cow".

Another nail in the coffin. My bet is the company is sold within 18 months to Mattel or Hasbro.

I wonder if that would improve GW? JK! JK!

I think it would. Look at what Disney is doing with Star Wars and Hasbro with D&D.

You need to respect your fans and treat your ip with appropriate reverence.

Otherwise you fail.

:D Hey Mute can I use the JK! JK! In future to larf at the EE too with this de incarnation they need more of it JK!

I thought the whole idea of age of sigmar was to have solid IP claims to all the new names? Aelf,grot,orruk etc..
The old world has too many name sakes that can be or are used by other firms.

For how many years have people been telling us that GW doesn't know it's doing and predicting that the company will be bankrupt in 18 months……..

People in the know, who have analyzed GW financial statements, have been telling us for some time now how Warhammer Fantasy was not profitable or at least so little profitable as not being worth continuing. Age of Sigmar is GW's attempt to reboot and reenergize its fantasy range.

I love when people start threads criticizing GW for doing this, when more than half the time they admit they quit playing or quit buying GW miniatures, or both.

I still have plenty of 40k stuff and still play WFRP so I have skin in the game.

My criticism is the strategy. I do have significant experience successfully reinvigorating huge IPs, so I am not talking out of my excretory orifice.

Are we not allowed to criticize company strategies here? Can you honestly say you believe GW strategies over the last few years have been good?

The "finecast" debacle was obvious but there have been tons more.

I don't hate GW, in fact they have created some of my favorite games.

Just because people aren't agreeing with you doesn't mean you're "not allowed to criticize", it means they just don't agree with you.

I don't either. GW knows what they're doing. Introducing a new game that fans are playing, that new people are entering, and all of them buying new books, figures, paint, etc.
Kids are the target, they pay huge sums for little. Older people don't, they look for cheaper proxies and better value.
In short, they don't care that you don't like it. You're not the target audience.

I'm not either. I don't like any of their rules, the figures are poorly designed and sculpted, their products are repackaged stuff you can get elsewhere for less. Even their background fluff is a nonsense mash of ideas stolen from other places.
I don't hate them, I just don't like their stuff. So I just don't play it. Others do.

So without any feeling either way, I see it objectively.
This "direction" is the same direction they've always been going. It's been successful, and it will continue to be so.

I don't think Hasbro makes or sells anything anymore. They are pretty much a pure IP licensing and marketing firm such as Oshkosh By Gosh the trendyish kids clothing company. GW has a tangible asset heavy portfolio with real property and leases along with production, I can't see an IP companies upside with that.

Hasbro still makes and sells lots of things (we talked about me going up there to take over an ip about a year ago so I had to do some analysis.)

The real issue in my mind is they appear, from my point of view, to have lost perspective on how to market creative IP. Marketing a competing similar product to your existing IP is a dead end.

Hasbro no longer manufactures games. They have sold off their US plants to Cartemundi.

How does calling an Elf an Aelf protect them from someone else just making an Elf that everyone knows is an Aelf? And in another thread I wondered how they could copyright Aelf anyway – it is an old english word for …elf.

How does calling an Elf an Aelf protect them from someone else just making an Elf that everyone knows is an Aelf? And in another thread I wondered how they could copyright Aelf anyway – it is an old english word for …elf.

My guess is that the name change will be combined with a radically different design that will look nothing like a traditional elf.

The olde world WHFB setting was hardly unique and original. It ripped off LOTR and the legend of King Arthur, not to mention actual historical armies like landsknechts. After 23 years and eight editions it simply ran out of steam. 23 years isn't a bad run.

AoS is WHFB's last chance to stay relevant. It is also a bold attempt (or "desperate" depending on your viewpoint) by GW to resuscitate a flagging franchise. As many have already pointed out, the WHFB vets are grognards who already bought their armies throughout the years (and hence not a major source of revenue for GW), and the youngsters aren't buying into Oldehammer. AoS with its immortal demigod Stormcast Eternal "Blood Angels space marines" is intended to remedy that.

GW certainly could do worse by staying on the sinking ship of Oldehammer. It's time to turn over a new leaf.

I am not overly impressed with the new rules but I think that having simple rules that appeal to new players is a good idea – and the minis look like they would be a lot of fun to paint

Yep, it was a rip off and I could never get into it. Thus this line never got any of my money.

And No, I'm not a kid but an adult with lots of purchasing power. Bought the starter box, a set of paints and love the miniatures.

Almost certain to buy more.

Zargon, No IP on JK so feel free to "JK" away until Bill says otherwise.

I have been hearing for the past twenty years that GW was "about to fold" as soon as a new edition of fantasy was released. This is nothing new. People by nature like to predict the ending of something, and wargaming and video game companies seem to be especially juicy targets. Lo and behold GW is still here – and I think that it sticks in the craw of people more because they were wrong and more because GW is just the guy they like to pick on. Not that different from those constantly predicting the fall of Blizzard's World of Warcraft. It's human nature to relish in the fall of the big guy.

There are more opinions about GW's marketing, sales, and business ethics floating out there than one can count.

As I have said again and again, The old Warhammer world didn't go anywhere! The old factions didn't go anywhere! The only people that had these things disappear for them are either tournament gamers who are locked into "official everything", or those who play in gaming stores or clubs where noone is interested in previous editions of the game/world.

But I have to ask a fundamental question here – Is it GW's responsibility where and how you find people to play the game? I say no. Is it GW's problem if the tournament scene can't find a consensus to agree on for playing Age of Sigmar? I say no. And finally – Is it GW's problem if you don't like what they do with their lore and what direction they take their fantasy world in? I say NO.

For every story I hear about gamers who now say they can't play 8th any more because their local store will only play AOS, I hear another story saying that their store or club has players who will willingly continue to play 8th or previous editions.

Personally, I don't really care for the lore of AOS, and I don't like what they did with the Old World. I just can't get excited about the world being blown apart and floating in space. Just not my cup of tea. I like maps, lands, places, a solid world that goes through changes, but never goes away. I need to know that the Moot is still there, that the Empire is still there, that the mountain ranges are still there. I need to have all of that suspended in time, that is the Warhammer world I love.

But at the same time I think that GW's move was totally necessary, and the more I look at the new minis the more I like them. I just find the design to be very cool, and the new terrain gates/portals are really spectacular. While I don't accept it as part of MY Warhammer world, I DO accept it as an alternative version of the world that seems like a pretty cool setting to play games in.

To quote Martin from the Youtube Channel "Wargames";

"Warhammer 9th Edition/AOS, whether you like it or not – it is coming."

And in another thread I wondered how they could copyright Aelf anyway – it is an old english word for …elf.

They can't. They can, however, trademark it, which is a different animal entirely. You can't copyright "Warhammer" or "Space Marine" either but use those terms in a game title and see how fast you get a cease & desist letter from GW for infringing their trademarks.

LT

"Warhammer 9th Edition/AOS, whether you like it or not – it is coming."

True but how long will it last?

@Mithmee,

I guess my question would be, does it really matter how long it lasts? If it makes GW money and people like it, and 40k continues to go strong, well I mean fantasy lasted for thirty+ years. That's not a bad run.

Epic 40K was making GW money and were is it today?

I thought the whole idea of age of sigmar was to have solid IP claims to all the new names? Aelf,grot,orruk etc..
The old world has too many name sakes that can be or are used by other firms.

Given how they wound up sinking a whole bunch of money and time for a very mixed result in the Chapterhouse Studios lawsuit, I suspect that this was a big part of the change. One only has to look how they have dropped units that did not have models from recent army books, the renaming of the 40k Imperial Guard etc to see this sort of thing in action.

Me?
I have yet to actually sit down and try AoS. I do applaud how GW made the core rules and stats for all the existing armies a free download. That's a refreshing change. (insert comments about blind squirrels, broken clocks, etc) Likewise, some of the concepts in the rules look good to me on the surface. I have large numbers of WFB figures painted up and I want to like the new set. Time will tell.