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"Traveller Spaceship Combat - Best Rules Option(s)?" Topic


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©1994-2024 Bill Armintrout
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Mako1116 Jul 2015 1:01 p.m. PST

I have CT, and have been looking at them, as well as some other postings for playing a bit of space combat with the smaller vessels, e.g. free traders, far traders, close escorts, fighters, etc.

I've run across a number of damage variants listed for battles with the smaller starships, ship's boats, and fighters.

So, I'm curious as to which combat damage rules people like best, for these smaller vessels (CT, MT, High Guard, T5, etc.), with the following points I'm interested in:

1. primarily seeking wargaming rules, for battles with just the ships, and not so much individual RPG attributes modifying the combat outcomes;

2. determining which hits only damage the surface of a vessel, and which penetrate (I don't see any rules for that, other than for armored vessels, but would like to include them – perhaps giving all vessels at least a 1 Armor rating?);

3. having the percentage chance for damage location mimic that of the different vessels (I've seen some where they do this based upon tonnage allocated to various things, like: bridge, fuel tanks, maneuver drives, cargo holds, etc., as a percentage of the overall vessel's size); and,

4. having critical hit chances as well. One of the combat results tables listed more criticals, e.g. engines permanently damaged, etc., since it was either a D10 table, or a 2D6 one, which provided a wider variety of options than the 1D6 critical hit chart.

In one of the battle damage accounts, it appears that each successful hit knocked out 1 ton of whatever area it hit (missiles did 1D6 tons of damage, for each hit).

I don't recall seeing any spaceship combat battle damage examples in the LBBs of CT, so am wondering how people handle the above.

Depending upon which battle report I read, and/or version of the rules, there are a number of discrepencies, e.g. in CT, only one missile, OR one sandcaster charge can be fired per 16.7 minute turn (even if it is a triple turret, apparently), per turret. That seems a little slow to me.

However, the rules do state if you have more excess power, two pulse or beam laser shots can be fired per 16.7 minute turn.

In other accounts I've read, it appears that each weapon of a turret can be fired once/turn (perhaps some even permit all the ready-rack ammo from a turret to be fired in a turn, before reloading), say, a triple turret can fire two missiles and one sandcaster charge in a turn (or, six missiles and three SC charges in a turn, since that's what the ready-racks hold).

That seems to make a bit more sense to me, since otherwise, why have a triple turret, if you can only fire one barrel/turn, anyway?

So, how many missiles, sandcaster charges, and/or laser shots do you permit each multi-barreled turret to fire, per turn?

I've also seen conflicting info on the missiles, and the damage they do. In the CT LBB rules, it states that when a missile hits its target, it does 1D6 damage, and that you roll for each DP achieved to determine the hit locations (as many as six are possible from a single missile strike, if you roll well).

In another rules battle account I've read, all damage from a single missile (again 1D6) is allocated to the same location, in terms of tons subtracted from the vessel, and if more damage is done than tonnage is present, then any additional DPs spill over into an adjacent area.

Finally, when crew casualties occur, do you assume all the crew are killed (assuming perhaps they weren't wearing vacc suits), or do you roll 1D6, or 2D6 to determine the number of casualties?

I don't see any mention of that in the rules, other than that if an explosive decompression occurs in a section the crew are occupying, those wearing not wearing vacc suits may die, if they don't get them on in time (must roll a skill check and succeed to avoid death).

So, how do you handle crew casualties?

Any recommendations on which variant(s) of Traveller for small, RPG-scale spaceship battles are appreciated (perhaps a vessel or three per side, and/or three to four fighters, if that is a good number, vs. a vessel, or three).

Looking for a decent level of interesting play, but without it being too onerous to conduct, primarily with vessels of 1,000 – 1,200 tons, or less, and most being in the 30 – 400 ton range, I suspect.

May end up converting some, or all of the above stats over the Full Thrust, for simplicity.

Brian Smaller16 Jul 2015 1:09 p.m. PST

In all the Traveller I played I never used miniatures in a Traveller space combat that occurred during a RPG session. I always just roleplayed it – except for one battle we played out at a spaceport (on a 12x8 table) with 1/300th figures and suitable sized Scout ship templates – which I suppose is not technically a space combat even though it involved starships.

I just don't think either HG or LBB space combat rules are that suited for traditional table top gaming.

Mako1116 Jul 2015 1:16 p.m. PST

Yea, I'm beginning to think that as well, especially since I'm considering just abstracting any crew attributes, and looking for something a bit quicker.

I imagine cobbling together a set of rules using something like Full Thrust, and then modifying them to the various attributes of the Traveller universe might work best, once I get the hang of how lethal missiles and beams are to the ships, and crews, etc.

The rate of fire of the missiles per turn will have a huge impact on that lethality. In CT, it says the ROF is one missile per 16.7 minute turn, per turret, which just seems far too slow for me. Why bother having more than one launcher on a turret, if you can only fire one missile, OR one sandcaster charge per turn.

Assuming perhaps half the missiles are dodged, or otherwise shot down, and another 50% miss on their own, then you've probably got a very long game on your hands, unless you get a very lucky hit.

blacksmith16 Jul 2015 1:28 p.m. PST

Here you can see some reports of Carrier Command; maybe it could interest you:
link

emckinney16 Jul 2015 4:23 p.m. PST

In CT, it says the ROF is one missile per 16.7 minute turn, per turret, which just seems far too slow for me. Why bother having more than one launcher on a turret, if you can only fire one missile, OR one sandcaster charge per turn.

Where do you see that?

(I may be looking in a different edition--a rule along those lines is in Mayday, but Mayday limits the entire ship to a single missile launcher.)

lugal hdan16 Jul 2015 4:34 p.m. PST

A triple turret of missiles can launch 3 missiles – pg. 32 of LBB2 "only one missile or sand canister may be launched from a rack". In this case, from the construction rules, it's clear that a triple turret contains 3 racks. (Each of which has 3 missiles in its magazine, FWIW.)

As for damage distribution, I take the simple approach – a missile does 1D hits, and you roll for each hit separately. The same for Pulse lasers (which do 2 hits) – roll separately for each hit.

Mako1116 Jul 2015 5:47 p.m. PST

Thanks for the reply, EM.

It stated that in the CT rules.

Missed it the first time, but found it specifically stating a turret can fire one missile or one sandcaster charge per turn.

"Ordnance must be specified as launched during the launch phase, and only one missile or sand canister may be launched from a launch rack or sandcaster".

I was interpreting the multiple launchers in the triple turrets as a single rack, due to the above, statement, which I find to be a bit misleading.

Top of page 32 of the CT Book 2, Starships LBB, 2nd edition.

In going back and re-reading it again, I do see a contradictory statement, at the bottom of page 29, under the "ORDNANCE LAUNCH" section, which states "During the ordnance launch phase, missiles or sand or both, may be launched, provided both launch and target programs are running".

Thanks for the clarification, lugal. That makes them more in line in which I was thinking, which is to permit each launcher in the turret to fire at least once per turn.

Yea, that makes sense for damage distribution as well.

emckinney17 Jul 2015 10:02 a.m. PST

Yeah, lugal is right (that was my interpretation), which is why I was wondering where you found the rule …

ubercommando17 Jul 2015 3:04 p.m. PST

I usually used the High Guard book for ship combat. There's a specific miniatures version of High Guard called "Power Projection Fleet" which was published by the British Isles Traveller Support group.

emckinney17 Jul 2015 3:35 p.m. PST

PP:F has no relationship to High Guard.

AdAstraGames18 Jul 2015 10:26 a.m. PST

If you're looking to kitbash on Full Thrust, Power Projection: Fleets will do that for you nicely.

adastragames.com/traveller should hook you up.

WarpSpeed20 Jul 2015 3:16 a.m. PST

Whats wrong with "Mayday"?

Mako1120 Jul 2015 12:19 p.m. PST

I don't own it, and don't know what it's like, in relation to the other rules, like CT Bk2 spaceship combat, HG2, etc..

kmfrye23 Jul 2015 11:16 a.m. PST

I agree with emckinney – Power Projection: Fleet isn't High Guard – at least not the LBB High Guard. It's a blend.

PP:F has at least as much to do with Full Thrust as it does CT High Guard. That said, it's possible, with some tweaking for scale, to use PP:F for PC-sized Traveller starship combat.

And it is designd for Traveller. : )

Regards,
Keith F.

williamb24 Jul 2015 5:02 a.m. PST

GDW's 2300AD Starcruiser rules cover almost all of the four points listed. link
The original 2300AD rules had a more RPG version.
Using the TMP forum search will show various threads on the good and bad points of the rules
Regards,
Bill

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