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"George Gush's Renaissance Warfare - Airfix Magazine Articles" Topic


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Druzhina13 Jul 2015 11:49 p.m. PST
Broglie14 Jul 2015 1:44 a.m. PST

Thanks Druzhina

That is great. I used to have Gush's book but lent it to someone and never got it back.

Regards

Personal logo ochoin Supporting Member of TMP14 Jul 2015 2:46 a.m. PST

A very useful resource. Many thanks.

Oh Bugger14 Jul 2015 4:35 a.m. PST

Tudor flags in colour very nice.

Cardinal Hawkwood14 Jul 2015 5:48 a.m. PST

I still have the originals

Intrepide14 Jul 2015 7:04 a.m. PST

Outstanding, thank you so much!

Kadrinazi14 Jul 2015 7:48 a.m. PST

'Sometimes inaccurate' is really understatement here ;)

GurKhan14 Jul 2015 8:51 a.m. PST

When were the articles originally published, can anyone remember – early 1970s?

Kadrinazi14 Jul 2015 8:57 a.m. PST

1975

IGWARG1 Supporting Member of TMP Fezian14 Jul 2015 9:03 a.m. PST

Can someone point out inacuracies. Being old doesn't automaticaly makes it inacurate.

Gray Bear14 Jul 2015 10:07 a.m. PST

Thanks!

Who asked this joker14 Jul 2015 12:33 p.m. PST

Can someone point out inacuracies. Being old doesn't automaticaly makes it inacurate.

Lutzen. The text says the Imperialists used smaller formations 800-1000 men instead of the big Spanish style blocks. AFAIK, Lutzen was characterized by the use of 4 big blocks in the center with a few smaller regiments to hold the windmill hill. I have not read the whole thing though. There could be other inaccuracies.

Nice article and very interesting never the less. Thanks for posting!

Daniel S14 Jul 2015 1:16 p.m. PST

Lutzen. The text says the Imperialists used smaller formations 800-1000 men instead of the big Spanish style blocks. AFAIK, Lutzen was characterized by the use of 4 big blocks in the center with a few smaller regiments to hold the windmill hill. I have not read the whole thing though. There could be other inaccuracies.

Well that is one (rare) instances when Gush is right. The "4 big blocks" were an invention by the engraver who illustrated the battle for "Theatrum Europeaum" and is not supported by any eyewitness or primary sources. We have ample evidence for the Imperial deploymentsuch as Holk's letter written just days after the battle, the deployment sketch today on display in the HGM in Wein and the large painting of the battle which Piccolomini commisioned Snayers to make to name 3 of the most important.
picture

picture

picture

GurKhan14 Jul 2015 1:17 p.m. PST

Lutzen. The text says the Imperialists used smaller formations 800-1000 men instead of the big Spanish style blocks. AFAIK, Lutzen was characterized by the use of 4 big blocks in the center with a few smaller regiments to hold the windmill hill.

Of course the Imperial array at Lutzen is a subject of long debate, and there are people here who know the evidence much better than I do; but isn't Gush more or less correct here? Brzezinski in the Lutzen Osprey (2001) quotes Holk, the man who personally put the Imperial infantry into formation, as writing that the first line was "5000 on foot in five brigades" and "the middle [line] in two brigades each of 1000 and six companies of horse…" – in other words, exactly the strength Gush suggested, right from the horse's mouth.

Edit: And I see that one of those better-informed people has beaten me to it!

Kadrinazi14 Jul 2015 2:28 p.m. PST

Polish army is full of errors, just the few examples:
- it wasn't Polish army, it was Polish and Lithuanian armies, that were part of the Commonwealth
- Gush wrote about the colours of the uniform like it was standard thing in Commonwealth armies, which of course wasn't
- Pancerni are mentioned but no 'cossack style cavalry' which in fact was much more common than pancerni until 1670's
- light cavalry was NOT made of Cossacks
- bagpipes were not the standard musical instrument of he the Polish infantry
- dragoons rarely had pistol, not to mention brace of them
- no heavy dragoons in Commonwealth armies
- 'rajtar' cavalry was not based on Swedish formations
and for large part of the 17th century they retained armour
- Lithuanian Tatars in 17th century didn't look like the one from the picture. They were very much like Poles and Lithuanians with their clothes
and I could like that whole night…

Personal logo 20thmaine Supporting Member of TMP14 Jul 2015 4:54 p.m. PST

It's perhaps hard to recall what a ground breaking series this was – mistakes/errors/misinterpretations and all.

Forty years ago the amount of information available for many of these armies – in English and outside university libraries was (approximately) diddly-squat.

George Gush really moved things forwards for Renaissance era gaming, never one of the really big periods and even more so back in '75 when there were hardly any figures compared to, say, ancients/medievals.

Nice to see these articles more widely available – but like Cardinal hawkwood "I still have the originals"!

Personal logo Bobgnar Supporting Member of TMP14 Jul 2015 5:15 p.m. PST

This new listing of the contents should be quite useful. Most of the chapters from the book were already available online here:

myarmoury.com/features.html

There is some other interesting stuff there too. Putting all of this online will now save John Curry a bit of work if he had planned to publish this in his useful history of wargaming series.

Druzhina14 Jul 2015 9:11 p.m. PST

George Gush really moved things forwards for Renaissance era gaming, never one of the really big periods and even more so back in '75 when there were hardly any figures compared to, say, ancients/medievals.

Parts 24 and 25, which I did not include, are on converting Airfix figures for Renaissance armies e.g making lansknechts from British 8th Army figures.


Also from George Gush's book are
The Burgundian Army of Charles the Bold
The Italians
Military Orders
The Moghul Empire
The English Civil War

Druzhina
15th Century Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

bruntonboy14 Jul 2015 10:55 p.m. PST

Please add 24 and 25! I would love to see those as I have the original book but never saw the magazine articles.

I recon if these are added in than it may help those who are critical of Gush's efforts appreciate just how rare information AND wargames figures were for this period way back when he was writing these gems.

Lt Col Pedant15 Jul 2015 5:03 a.m. PST

I'd second bruntonboy's request.

Personal logo 20thmaine Supporting Member of TMP15 Jul 2015 5:15 a.m. PST

Although I have them already I third that suggestion. The commitment of gamers of that era to get the figures they wanted/needed was quite remarkable.

lansknechts from British 8th Army figures…..you kids don't know what I'm talking about evil grin.

Who asked this joker15 Jul 2015 7:55 a.m. PST

Well that is one (rare) instances when Gush is right. The "4 big blocks" were an invention by the engraver who illustrated the battle for "Theatrum Europeaum" and is not supported by any eyewitness or primary sources. We have ample evidence for the Imperial deploymentsuch as Holk's letter written just days after the battle, the deployment sketch today on display in the HGM in Wein and the large painting of the battle which Piccolomini commisioned Snayers to make to name 3 of the most important.

I figured you'd be by to enlighten us Daniel! grin Thanks for the insight! As usual, very informative!

Mac163815 Jul 2015 8:25 a.m. PST

I still some time use my paper back copy of Renaissance Armies by George Gush (orange cover).

This book did more for renaissance wargaming at the time than any other (along with his quirky rules).

With the help of this book I was able to build by converting Hinchliff 25mm Ottoman's and Muscovite's into a Persian Army,no manufacturas in the late 70's I still have them.

sumerandakkad15 Jul 2015 12:17 p.m. PST

I find them more informative than the Osprey equivalent. Different format I know.

Druzhina16 Jul 2015 4:20 a.m. PST
GurKhan16 Jul 2015 5:29 a.m. PST

Those are some impressive conversions! I don't remember those last two articles – I must have given up Airfix Mag before they appeared. Thanks, Druzhina.

bruntonboy19 Jul 2015 4:08 a.m. PST

Thanks! Very much appeciated.

AussieAndy27 Jul 2015 7:45 p.m. PST

Hello all
I have Mr Gush's Renaissance Armies book, but I haven't yet read it. Can anyone advise if there is anything extra in the Airfix Magazine articles or whether they just cover the same ground as the book. I don't want to print them out if they cover the same territory.
Thank you

Supercilius Maximus28 Jul 2015 5:13 a.m. PST

Can anyone indicate whether the article on the armies of the Moghul Empire remains accurate and reliable?

pilum4029 Jul 2015 5:53 p.m. PST

I've still got my two copies…the orange cover and the green cover!

Druzhina29 Jul 2015 8:41 p.m. PST

I have Mr Gush's Renaissance Armies book, but I haven't yet read it. Can anyone advise if there is anything extra in the Airfix Magazine articles or whether they just cover the same ground as the book. I don't want to print them out if they cover the same territory

I noticed that the Polish chapter was revised, with a few new illustrations.

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

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