"The Glorious 12th - Current Politics?" Topic

I am in need of advice from those who have more knowledge in this area…

Would this post – TMP link – be considered outside the ten year rule against politics, or are the songs part of current politics?

Well, we could use recent events as an analogy.

For some people the issues resulting from the long-standing Sectarian conflict in Ireland are as real as those people have in the recent brouhaha over the Confederate flag in the USA.

In my opinion, there is a difference between discussing wargaming the battles of the 17th Century in Ireland, or wargaming the American Civil War, with the requirement of showing both sides of those conflicts (including appropriate flags and banners), and discussing those symbols in a modern-day context.

It's your site. You decide.

Cheers,
JohnG

Why not just forget "politics" and just DH for Bad Behavior™?

Apply Wheaton's Law: "Don't be a ".

Stop looking for variations etc.

Would "Roddy McCorley" a rebel song from the ' 98 be outside the 10 year rule?
Or songs from 1920?
Or 1976?

Look.
You initiated the 10 year rule from a Poll suggestion from the OFM.
Either live with it, or throw out the "Politics" rule altogether and just punish for Bad Behavior. "Don't be a dick."
What if I objected to a post praising Robert E Lee? So what? That was 150 years ago.

You can't keep on looking for exceptions and whatnot.

if you're looking for rules clarification on your site, maybe you have too many rules…

Which 12th?
If you are talking about the start of the Grouse Season in August then I suppose it may be, depending whether you think game shooting is a good or a bad thing.

If you mean the 12th of July in Ireland/N Ireland – everything is political.

Can't see the original post as it's in the Lounge but I can guess…

Anything to do with the 12th is going to be wrapped up in sectarian bigotry which sadly is far too relevant for many people in Ireland,Northern Ireland and Scotland at present. Please don't dress it up in cod Oirish nostalgia.

Without being able to see the post its difficult to comment. Perhaps the lounge is protected from being quoted here, but maybe the songs could be cited?

Ah, I thought this referred to the Grouse season too.

But yes, the celebration of the victory of Protestantism over Catholicism is going to also be bound up in all sorts of vicious sectarian nonsense.

I believe the casualties in Northern Ireland already exceed 20 this year.

The 12th, not the Grouse one, is a deeply political event and very much part of current politics.

If you (or anyone else) wants to discuss something here, you should make the object of discussion reachable. Offering a link that does not show anything because entrance is not offered to anyone is rather useless.

A quick look at the BBC website would have told you that the 12July is still very much a current political matter. I think you should consider a spell in the DH for yourself on this one, Bill.

if you're looking for rules clarification on your site, maybe you have too many rules…

Bill didn't ask for clarification on the rules. He asked for clarification on the cultural background of a specific comment to determine whether or not it fit into the rules.

This is the reason there are so many rules.

No worse then Nazi marching songs.

are July 12 parades still an issue in Northern Ireland ?

The attached pictures may provide a clue

link

Oh I know, bloody Dutch coming over here and taking over our monarchy….

As noted above, the actual comment would have been useful to see for the specific context. Although, yes, in principle the 12th of July is a Big Deal in Northern Ireland and Scotland, it depends exactly what was said, by whom and about what.

I see the casualty count has now topped 26.

Part of the problem here, Bill (IMHO), is that there are many, many posts on this forum (often all from the same chap) that are simply links to news items which are only tangentially linked to wargaming and miniatures – at best. This is simply another example of that malaise.

A link to the historical context of this original post with some additional "how are you playing this on the table?" or an "I did a game set in the Boyne valley and here's my AAR"… patently none of that would be a problem (not for me, anyway). Even if it was a game set in the very recent past – even if hard to stomach (just for instance, Northern Ireland campaigns with street fighting and car bombs) – then – if you are genuinely determined to do that as a game and you have a gaming angle on it as a posting – I don't have a problem with it.

And – for me – the same goes for confederate flags, the SS or suicide bombings in Fallujah. If it's in a game context: not an issue. Because, if there's a gaming or modelling component, then this is what this site is about, surely?

TMP link

My problem is that this is not how this site is sometimes used: when it becomes someone's personal blog so they can post anything they like with little or no relevance to gaming and no effort made to include a gaming component – just an endless series of new links – then I question (as many other have) your business model.

This is not Reddit.

For me, it's not the 'is it politics' rule or the 'is it politics within the last ten years' rule that needs applying (or even fixing) in this instance.

It's the "is it relevant to playing games with toy soldiers" aspect that is often overlooked.

Address that, Bill, and these other questions will probably reduce in frequency.

Just my tuppence worth.

John T

When I click on the link it just shows a blank page Bill. I assume as you have nuked the thread.

So I cannot comment and would suggest you nuke this, apart from the John Treadaway post.

Why am I not surprised to see a "Confederate" flag, when I really should be.

I see that my Irish progenitors resemble the denizens of a carnival/free concert gone terribly awry.

And they obviously have WAY too much time on their hands.

Aaah, in the Lounge, as a non supporting member I see now. Possibly Bill, would have been better manners to post this in The Lounge rather than on the public bit of TMP?

No problem, The Lounge of TMP is one place I have no desire to visit.

Well said John.

Regarding the OP's linked thread, is it possible to DH someone for just being tacky? Irregardless of the politics?

Would you all please note that the expression "The Glorious Twelfth" actually refers to the 12th of AUGUST, which is the traditional start of the grouse-shooting season here in the UK.

It has absolutely nothing to do with people marching around in orange sashes, thumbing their noses at us Taigs (a remarkable number of whom manage to stay loyal to Her Maj – gawd bless 'er – despite this).

Sorry SM – you're a bit late – two of already did that (see above).

What??? I'm expected to read the previous posts first before launching into a barely DH-avoiding rant? How dare you limit my basic human right to make a total t1t of myself.

I agree with John T.

SM – Sorry – on reflection the real Glorious 12th should get many more mentions – keep it up.