"So who ever said GW's business is "in trouble"?..." Topic

I've been seeing this theme hashed and rehashed and rerehashed for a number of years.

The premise is that Fantasy has been a dying sector of GW's bottom line while 40k is what has been keeping them financially afloat.

As a general idea, there is some truth to this. No question that 40k has been their biggest money maker for quite some time.

However, where I take issue is when people pose questions such as, "So how can GW turn their business around?" or "What can GW do to not fall into oblivion?".

My response to those questions would be, "Does GW REALLY have anything that 'needs to turned around' at all"???

So who says that GW is "falling into oblivion"? Why all the laser focus on GW's need for a massive restructure to "rescue itself" from its bad business practices? What's the truth in this?

There have been more opinions and rants about GW's handling of their company than there are stars in the universe. Everybody has their version of what THEY would do with GW if ONLY they were in charge of it.

The truth of it is this – if many of you were put in charge of GW, the company would be out of business in a week. Fact. Not because you are not well meaning or sincere, but because you have no experience running a gaming or miniatures company.

Now, don't get me wrong. That doesn't mean that some people don't have good ideas about business in general.

But what kills me is how people frame the decline of Warhammer fantasy battle as being some kind of "unsustainable business model" that GW didn't address or properly handle. They talk about it like GW made some kind of fatal error that doomed fantasy to implode because of GW's incompetence…of course, nobody ever mentions that that "unsustainable business model" they had for fantasy managed to last for over thirty years!

"UNSUSTAINABLE business model"??? LOL.

Consider this. Games Workshop managed to keep two major games going for THIRTY years. Think about that for a minute. THIRTY years. Fantasy and 40k. During that span of time there have been no fewer than a dozen attempts by other companies to come up with an equivalent version of a fantasy massed combat game. And almost none of them survived. Recent games like Kings of War is a huge exception.

Let me ask all of you – name me one product or one company that can be sustained FOREVER. Because that's what your criticizing GW for. For not being able to sustain fantasy FOREVER? How is that possible?

Is it not enough that GW managed to keep fantasy going through EIGHT editions spanning three decades, publishing full-length rules for each edition, publishing HUNDREDS of army books and supplements, while sculpting and producing TENS OF THOUSANDS of miniatures over three generations of metals into plastics…and keeping the quality of those miniatures high throughout the entire span and improving their miniature detail quality with each new edition.

Could it be that the criticism of GW comes from people taking the quality of their products for granted? Could it be that all of the rage against GW's prices and business practices is motivated by us being spoiled by GW continuing to bring us quality stuff for decades on end?

The point is that GW rulebooks and supplements are gorgeous, the photography is top notch and the artwork is top notch. Their plastics miniatures and terrain are among the best in the world in terms of painting and convertibility. The production quality of their printed materials and miniatures has remained at the top of the heap for a long, long time.

And GW has survived in the fantasy wargaming world where many companies have failed.

So is it really genuine and honest to criticize GW for finally having its fantasy run decline and come to an end? Thirty years wasn't enough?

That seems like a pretty impressive run to me. As far as I am concerned, GW has allowed me to choose between any edition of Warhammer that I want, play it any way I want, and collect miniatures along the way who's detail and lore have stood the test of time.

So, who says that GW's business is "in trouble"? They have managed to remain profitable as a company in England, a country which is still in the throes of the economic crisis that climaxed in 2008. That economic crisis caused hundreds of UK businesses to completely fold, as did happen in many places in the U.S. and Europe. Ask any business in the UK, and they would tell you they would be thrilled to still be in business, let alone profitable.

They weathered a recession that is still going on, and did it by making games for a niche market that many other companies have totally failed at.

Whether you like it or not, GW does indeed consider themselves to be a miniatures company FIRST. And they also happen to publish rules for playing with those miniatures.

But when you stop and think about it – for a company that considers itself to sells miniatures first and gaming rules second – they have managed to put together a long run of thoroughly and richly detailed rules to go along with those miniatures, and also published hundreds of supplements and a full-length monthly magazine in White Dwarf which supported both the hobby side of Warhammer and the gaming side of Warhammer.

Seems to me that GW did a pretty amazing job over the years providing games and rules for their miniatures, and they also did a pretty amazing job satisfying both the gamer as well as the painter/collector.

Nothing lasts forever. If this is indeed the end of GW's run with fantasy, well then I say it's been a hell of a run.

+1 wot he said!

Polite golf clap……

Points are well spoken and so very true!!

Yeah, I hope that I can run Uprising Miniatures into the ground in the way GW did with 40K and WHFB.

GeeDubs financials from recent years point to big issues with how they've run their business, but you can seperate that to a certain degree to how they've managed product dev. Not having a dog in this race I can't comment beyond that. From the perspective of the stock market they will be judged solely on their financials and future earnings capacity, not sentimentality of their current/former customer base.

An example of a product that will continue "forever" are several utilities like water, but when talking about consumer goods you are correct.

People smarter than me go over GW's financials carefully and analytically. The gist of their conclustions is that revenue is relatively flat over the past few years, yet the price has increased over that time. Conclusion: either the player base is simply not buying in the same volume as they had, or the player base is actively shrinking. At some time there will be a tipping point; wargames are usually social games, so when there comes a time that it becomes too hard to find opponents, the drop off will be calamitous. GW hasn't reached this point, and the company is not significantly in debt and still profitable, so this decline is still a bit off…

Damon.

Perhaps. Franchises do wear out, and end up overstaying their welcome. After all, we go on and on about how stupid it's all getting, but want it to keep going in the forlorn hope it's going to become what we wanted back in the day? Just look at Pirates of the Caribbean – they ran out of it, but decided to keep going so Disney had to start respraying their old surreal sitcom where "witch" is synonymous with "reality warper" that Disney have been selling under different names since time immemorial in pirate colours and calling it a pirate movie.

Still, that is the fact – it's all completely worn out. Goodbye.

From GW to Pirates to Disney to Goodbye.

How can I follow that?

Investors don't care what happened at GW 20-30 years ago. They want to know how the company is doing today and how will they be doing over the next couple of years. Show me there financial statements over the past five years and then I can tell you how they are doing.

The point is that GW rulebooks and supplements are gorgeous, the photography is top notch and the artwork is top notch.

Why yes they are…

Too bad that the Rules are filled with errors that need FAQ after FAQ.

Consider this. Games Workshop managed to keep two major games going for THIRTY years.

Actually only one of those games has been around for 30 years 40K still needs another two years to hit that mark.

But during that time they also managed to kill off quite a few successful games.

They have managed to remain profitable as a company

True but what did they have to do in order for this to happen. Raise prices by 10% or more each year. Start to put out Army Books & Codexes for nearly $70. USD Double the cost of Dire Avengers from $35 USD for 10 to $70 USD for 10.

Putting out $120 USD – $160 USD+ large size miniatures.

full-length monthly magazine in White Dwarf which supported both the hobby side of Warhammer and the gaming side of Warhammer.

White Dwarf stop being a Gaming Magazine over a decade ago when GW turned it into a paid for advertisement.

Yes it was fantastic but that was a real long time ago.

They got hammer by the Chapter House Law suit, sure they got $25 USDK from it but their days of bully everyone came to an end and the things that they lost on were the most important.

is motivated by us being spoiled by GW continuing to bring us quality stuff for decades on end?

Quality stuff

Yup they brought us Finecast Resin, which turn out so freaking great for them.

They also brought us Surfing Undead on Giant Snakes yup that is quality for you.

They have been losing customers to several other games over the past few years and they have made it quite expensive for any new customers to get into the game.

I could not afford to replace all of my WFB, 40K or Epic stuff due to their current prices. Wait a minute they don't make Epic any more.

For a new player the initial buy in for just one WFB army of 2000 points can range from $1,000 USD – $1,500. USD This is the same for a 40K army as well.

They did this to themselves with all of their price increases over the years.

I was lucky I got most of my stuff 20 – 25 years ago when the prices were far more reasonable.

"They did this to themselves with all of their price increases over the years."

By "this" you mean continue you to be a successful, profitable company, right?

30 years is a good run for Warhammer Fantasy, and I think it'll still be around albeit in a reduced form. 40K will keep GW afloat for the foreseeable future.

The critics on TMP claim that GW will die because of corporate "greed," charging "ridiculously" high prices and ditching their beloved Specialist range, but they've been saying that for years if not decades and it hasn't happened yet.

Well put, btw.

A company that is not doing what "you" want it to do does not necessarily make it a failure.
I am indifferent to their fate since Bloodbowl. I am sure that doesn't bother them.

I really like Johnsonville's "Irish Garlic Sausage", yet I cannot find it in stores.
Ditto Yancey's Fancy "The Sharpest" cheese.
Yet, I am stunned to see that both companies survive!!!

There are those who say that "Patton" is a horrible movie because the tanks are wrong. Yet, it was a successful movie! Go figure!

Bloomberg's take
link

The bottom line drop doesn't look good, but this is surface data at best. While I wouldn't touch them as an investment, I think this thread is more about the hobby community reactions than their business performance.

I understand the reasoning by GW that "veteran" players dont buy as much stuff as new players. Where I disagree is that they still buy alot of stuff. They buy eough stuff to justify keeping them in the fold.

I have been collecting GW figure since 1989. I have three 40k armies and five Fantasy armies. Do I buy as much as I did ten years ago? No. But I still buy new units as they are released. I still start new armies as my interest in my old armies fades. I still buy the new army books for the armies I already have.

Id say I still buy around $500 USD a year on GW. Now multiply that buy several thousand like minded gamers and you'll see a significant amount of profit.

Its the callous disregard towards veteran collectors by GW that es me off more than anything. If they no longer value my money I'll gladly give it to someone who does.

Current stock price vs. that for the last ten years?

Total sales for the last decade, on a year to year basis?

Total revenue, and profit, annually, for the last ten years?

By "this" you mean continue you to be a successful, profitable company, right?

No, killing off Warhammer Fantasy Battle and making it so that new players look elsewhere.

Year over year, Games Workshop Group plc has seen revenues fall from 134.6M GBP to 123.5M GBP. This along with an increase in the cost of goods sold expense has led to a reduction in the bottom line from 16.3M GBP to 8.0M GBP.

Yup, a drop of 8.3M GBP in the bottom line. Sure they made a profit but far less.

Gee, I wonder why?

I have no idea what might happen to GW over the next 5 years or any other company for that matter who are trading on the high street in hard times ….. but at this point in time, I see most UK town with an outlet on the high street and I don't see any other wargame outlets, or at least enough of them, to give an alternative.

So it makes GW the only show in town, I look in and I see plenty of kids in there, not sure my part of the hobby (historical figures and boardgames) is attracting youngsters and it gives me a local convenient place to get my paints and brushes etc.

In a world of local towns losing their shops to coffee bars and night-time eating places, it is heartening to see something that relates to my hobby still surviving on the high street. So I hope they continue and have never really understood the detractors who feel the need to strongly verbally attack GW on the internet ….. just vote with your wallet, that is enough!

As an aside, in the UK, there have been some good news stories with a number of wargame stores opening around the country. They are still pretty thin on the ground, but their appearance seems helped by the new generation of 28mm plastics that is opening the historical sector, plus the boxed figure systems that allow meaningful games with smaller figure collections.

They sell GW stock and all the independent stuff and have gaming tables and so for the first time, GW is actually now facing a 'real' competitor in some towns and that brings a very different dynamic to what has essentially been the Status Quo.

This is a wonderful development against the background of declining as town centres in terms of the the shopping experience.

That's only a 50% drop, Mithmee, so no need to panic.

We'll need to see the latest report to fill in the picture. Looks like they had a real shocker from 13 to 14. I'd love to know what their "Other Intangibles" are from their balance sheet. These are usually trademarks, patents and copyrights seperate to the core biz. So for example the value of geedubs owned IP to my thinking would be accounted as part of goodwill. Is this the Hobbit stuff, or didnthey do a bunch of licencing for electronic gaming?

23.6% drop in cash from operations ain't good, but that could be explained in their annual report (I'm not that bored at work!)

Was 2013 a good year for them product launch wise?

Wasn't much of the drop due to LotR sales tailing off? I would also put a lot of the general decline down to alternative attractions for young people's available cash, the latest smartphone or tablet.
I like Kings of War, but Mantic have a long way to go to catch up with GW mini quality.
Seems to me they fixed a lot of the common complaints. Rules too complicated… fixed. Armies too big… fixed.
They stop making games when the profits drop, because they are a business. Lots of people moan about Squats, but nobody bought them when they were available. I can see a possibilty of one off boxed games like Mordheim etc, but no support. Wasn't it Blood Bowl they rereleased due to fan pressure then made a loss on it because not enough of the baying masses bought it?

I doubt if Bloodbowl was a big problem for them, it ran to three editions and is still being played today. I own at least 9 teams.

When selling consumer goods, an important factor to keep in mind is the longevity of a product.

A car breaks down after let's say 10 years. In a saturated market, that is good, because it means car manufacturers will keep selling cars as old ones need to be replaced. Same goes for e.g. electronics. Food is the extreme example.

But there are also goods that in principle last forever. Books are a good example. If I own a copy of a specific book, it doesn't matter how many new editions of that book the publisher will produce. Chances are I won't buy a new copy, and that even my children or perhaps even grandchildren will not buy a new copy … unless the old copy gets lost or worn out, after perhaps 50 years.

So what about games and miniatures? Many here say GW should not have killed off some old games from the past. But once the market is saturated, how many new copies will you sell? If you don't update your game rules, how many copies of those rules will you sell? If you do not refresh you range of miniatures and force players to buy them, how many will you sell? That's a crucial question for our hobby, since in principle, we can still play our wargames with figures we acquired during the 70s, 80s or 90s or 00s. So what do miniature companies have to do to convinve us to keep buying new figures and add them to our heap of lead?

Sure, you can count on an ever expanding market and customer base. But in a niche hobby like ours that's a dangerous bet. So you make the product easily accesible, to make sure you get a lot of new recruits that might hang around for a few years, thereby alienating the veterans.

The alternative is having the same product for many many years. That's the strategy followed by many of the one-man-businesses our hobby has, mostly out of necessity because they do not have the resources to produce new stuff every 6 months. And they have their role, because they bring new ideas and innovation. But it is also not a coincidence they usually dissappear after a few years.

My bet? AoS will be a huge success. Perhaps not with the veterans, but that doesn't matter.

Older gamers of GW have a skewed view that they are being hard done by.
Moreheads have never been a target of GW, they have been a bit of a bonus.
Just my two cents ofc.
Rees

As someone who has never drank the GW Kool-aid I really don't give a damn whether they fail or have the greatest year in their history.

These threads (pro and con) are a source of entertainment to me.

GW managed to keep fantasy going through EIGHT editions spanning three decades,

And you see this as a "good" thing?

And Fantasy war gaming has been going on fine without them since the 1970s.

I have been hearing the same arguments since the early 90s when I started playing GW games. I am sure that one day GW will go under (nothing lasts forever), and the naysayers will be able to finally say "I told you so".

In the meantime, in my local group, we are enjoying 7th edition 40k more than any previous edition. 7th has less rules issues than any previous edition. The variety of armies you can bring to the table is greater than ever. The Maelstrom of War scenarios and the new codexes make it seem more balanced than ever before. This opinion of mine is from actually playing the game, not just reading the books or Internet forums and speculating.

There is a huge interest in Age of Sigmar locally. As of right now WHFB hasnt got a 9th edition, so you can just keep playing 8th. Some people may ragequit, but obviously the existing player base wasn't buying enough to make the WHFB viable anyway. AoS is sparking interest from the 40k half of GWs customer base (in our local area).

I'm not sure but I think GW might pull out of this one :)

Goodwill is basically a "plug" number to make the balance sheet balance. A company typically incurs goodwill when it pays too much for an acquisition ( purchase price > the hard assets + the intellectual property). So,if you bought a company for $100 USD and it had inventory, receivables and fixed assets of say $70 USD then the accounting treatment requires $30 USD of "something" to be added to the balance sheet to get to $100. USD Often a portion of this intangible can be allocated to patents, trademarks and intellectual property. In this case, let's assume that these assets are worth $10. USD So $70 USD + $10 USD = $80 USD + $20 USD of goodwill = $100 USD

You can amortize intangibles over a certain period ( sort of like depreciation), but you can not amortize goodwill. Each year you need to mark to market the value of the goodwill and if the market value decreases, then you have to expense that against your income.

A very good and informative post about a company that looks to be the hinges on the miniatures wargaming hobby door.
People have mentioned how GW have isolated specialist game fans but surely this has given an opportunity to let in other companies and expanded our options in the long run. Bloodbowl,Mordheim and Necromunda all leave a mark on future games somehow in influence alone.
Spacemarine epic , Gorkamorka, space crusade,heroquest, Battle fleet, warhammerquest , inquisitor and man o war etc.. Etc.
I would not have dabbled with Malifaux .Dropzone commander, infinity, war machine , hordes, uncharted seas, Kaosball and deadzone etc…If it was not for early encouragement from GW games.

GW has also invested a lot of time and effort into the main competition for young people's attention, video games.
Warhammer online tried to grab a portion of the WoW cake and failed ( I played it round a friends and it was pretty darn good too,very funny).

Whether we like it or not continued success of GW is a bonus to all gamers in bucket loads or just a spoonful.
I have only played dreadfleet and space hulk in the last 5 years so don't fanboy badge me.

Form an orderly queue of opinions for GW please…Next !!

Lots of people moan about Squats, but nobody bought them when they were available.

That tired line. It's GW's job to make customers WANT their product. They weakly attempted to bring the space dwarves into 2e, but the few test minis they produced are worth a fortune on eBay now. They limped along for a while with a limited selection of their old line, with an ad hoc army list for the starter box. Ooh, fun. Coupled with that, their army lists SUCKED, and the RT one from WD111 was bizarrely over-pointed. Seems to me like they wanted them to fail.

Yet, nobody was clambering for Sigmaines, and here THEY are. GW is trying to convince me that I really want them. That's them doing their job.

If I were them, I would put out a super-expensive, limited-run collector's box of all-new Squat minis, as mercenary squad, or something. They DO do super-expensive limited-runs, right?

If it really flies, hey, a new line (NOTE: GOOD BUSINESS). If it DOESN'T, they silence the vociferous squat fans once and for all. The risk/reward ratio is very favorable.

But GW has some sort of bug up their ass about the squats. They like to pretend they never existed. And, somehow, customers clamoring for a potential product irritates them (NOTE: BAD BUSINESS).

Just one little example of why lots of former customers thing GW is run by s.

Release another box of marines that WILL sell to a lot of young people week in week out (NOTE:GOOD BUSINESS)

Release a box of Squat/dwarf/Demiurg that may or may not sell to a few older more selective person (NOTE:BAD BUSINESS)

Nobody gives a squat about Squats except for the few vociferous fans clamoring for them the loudest, but what's GW's excuse for not releasing a full-fledged, stand-alone and viable Sisters of Battle army with additional new units and vehicles in plastic like they just did for the Adeptus Mechanicus recently?

Unlike Squats, a "Nuns with Guns" army would be extremely popular and lucrative for GW. I know I will pay whatever GW charges for them.

Come on GW!

@Mithmee,

"Games Workshop did this to themselves."

I am still trying to figure out what this means exactly. To this day it mystifies me. They did WHAT to themselves?

There is a channel on Youtube(I won't reveal the name of it for the sake of fair diplomacy), but the fellow who runs it drives me insane because he posts these hour-long rants about GW's "self-fulfilling prophecy" and of "GW putting themselves in the current position they are in". And he has coined the fantasy battle aspect of GW's products as being the "unsustainable business model", which always make me laugh considering he's talking about a game that has lasted nearly thirty years. He thinks he knows better than them how to run their company, and his views are not at all unique. Disgruntled GW people are everywhere and all seem to speak about this "self-fulfilling mortal wound" that they supposedly dealt themselves.

So…..I ask….WHAT exactly did "they do to themselves"?

You mean make money for thirty years selling great games and great miniatures? You mean invigorating a whole genre of gaming that has spawned hundreds of new games from various companies?

Is that what "they did to themselves"?

Well now GOSH, somebody sue these people – the NERVE. LOL.

blood bowl is the best game gw ever made. fact.

sez the guy with well over 1200(yes. 1200)blood bowl/fantasy football figures.

want to meet up for a game, john? i'm in carbon county…

😄

Personally i think "they did it to themselves" could refer to the best and worst thing they ever did and that was float the company.
It meant that they could open shops quicker and release more stuff/subsidiaries, but it meant from then on they have to make X profit plus each year. Which is why the prices have to rocket annually.

It was much easier "in the good old days" when you could gauge how well GW was doing by the size of Bryan Ansells cigar at Games Day :)

Release a box of Squat/dwarf/Demiurg that may or may not sell to a few older more selective person (NOTE:BAD BUSINESS)

Nobody gives a squat about Squats except for the few vociferous fans clamoring for them the loudest

I reiterate: Who was screaming for Sigmarites last week? NOBODY, that's who. GW floats a new line, and hopes customers bite. This could fail worse than a limited line of neo-squats, and at significantly greater risk.

REIMAGINING squats (and no, I would not call the MkII version that) would potentially satisfy the Old Guard, and existing/new enthusiasts. That's two (2) markets. If the first is small, it as at least an actual, tangible market, which is more than they had with the new golden boys.

Built-in markets are GOOD BUSINESS. Many Kickstarter projects work on that principle. "Will customers buy this product? Well, "X" number of backers threw "Y" dollars at it, so even if it languishes in the wider market, the risk has been offset to some degree."

It has been stated before, GW, has long been satisfied to make $200 USD on one customer, rather than $100 USD on three.

@moonfleetminis

That's the gist of it. A publicly traded company is driven by growth and profits and somehow "loses its soul."

All the criticisms have nothing to do with bad business decisions and everything to do with what people wanted GW to be back in "simpler" times when GW was making less money.

…The premise is that Fantasy has been a dying sector of GW's bottom line while 40k is what has been keeping them financially afloat….
However, where I take issue is when people pose questions such as, "So how can GW turn their business around?" or "What can GW do to not fall into oblivion?".

My response to those questions would be, "Does GW REALLY have anything that 'needs to turned around' at all"???

I have no idea where you have got this notion from. Yes, there are lots of people asking 'How should GW turn their business around?' but that has nothing to do with fantasy selling less than 40K. I've never seen anybody apart from you assume it does.

What makes you think that people's concern over GW's business practices relates to the relative sales of fantasy/40k?

The general concern over whether GW's current practices are sustainable tends to focus on their falling profit margins and sales.
They are roughly maintaining yearly turnover, but they have instituted regular large price hikes. Therefore they are selling less product year-on-year. They have also stepped up the release schedule massively – to the point where they released a new edition of 40k after just 2 years. Despite this, and a big Space Marine release (the core seller) they still sold fewer units than previously.

The fact that they have driven away a large proportion of their older customers to focus on a younger audience, while annoying to some, may well be a sound business move. But not when they combine it with a massive reduction in staffing and hobby time in their stores. The younger customers need more direction and attention, but with most stores now being one man stores, this isn't happening.

These are the sort of issues people feel are causing a problem to GW's bottom line.

I couldn't care less about GW's business even though I play a lot of fantasy. I have 1000s' of fantasy miniatures, but probably only about 200 or so GW minis. I don't play GW rules, and nor am I likely to; there are plenty of other manufacturers & rules out there.

Lovejoy wrote:

The fact that they have driven away a large proportion of their older customers to focus on a younger audience, while annoying to some, may well be a sound business move. But not when they combine it with a massive reduction in staffing and hobby time in their stores. The younger customers need more direction and attention, but with most stores now being one man stores, this isn't happening.

These are the sort of issues people feel are causing a problem to GW's bottom line.

I think this is a myth. While GW needs younger players in order to survive from generation to generation, I don't think they are the major source of revenue for GW unless their parents give them large allowances. However, they will grow up, get steady jobs and may become a viable source of income for GW in the future.

Most of the 40K and Fantasy players I know are 25+, have good jobs and love the games. They also have multiple armies in 40K and/or Fantasy. I don't play Fantasy but have five 40K armies.

Closing the stores is a necessity because GW opened a bunch of stores during a period of unprecedented growth in the early to mid 2000's. They found that they overextended themselves and could no longer justify having all these stores during the economic downturn which started in 2008. Cutting costs and reducing overhead are unfortunate but are sound business decisions.

I've seen many of these stores. They were little more than after-school spots for latchkey kids who play with unpainted miniatures and not spending money. Frankly, they were a drain on GW.

Given that a lot of the successful game lines out there basically try to copy the GW model, I guess there's worse ways one could fail.

I couldn't care less about GW's business even though I play a lot of fantasy. I have 1000s' of fantasy miniatures, but probably only about 200 or so GW minis. I don't play GW rules, and nor am I likely to; there are plenty of other manufacturers & rules out there.

And my cat's breath smells like cat food.

It looks like their next results announcement will be July 28th.

link

As a child I collected the Marx historical playsets -- they were more expensive then the bag-o green soldiers. That being said , I never purchased one single box of Marx soldiers --now my Mom, dad, Grandma, grandpas, etc, etc purchased many,many box's of Marx figures on my requests and they had no idea that there were cheaper figures to be had?
regards
Russ Dunaway

The fact that GW has done well for the past 30 years doesn't mean it will for the next five.

The fact that some people who have been players for years don't like recent changes doesn't mean it won't.

And he has coined the fantasy battle aspect of GW's products as being the "unsustainable business model", which always make me laugh considering he's talking about a game that has lasted nearly thirty years.

And which is now dead.

Gee, who killed it off?

"Games Workshop did this to themselves."

I am still trying to figure out what this means exactly. To this day it mystifies me. They did WHAT to themselves?

Well if you have not gotten what they did from my many posts think about these other companies.

McDonalds – Now consider to be the worst Fast Food business.

Toyota – Quality issues put a huge damper in their products (which is why I own two Honda's vehicles)

Looks like they had a real shocker from 13 to 14

Well when did Bolt Action come out?

Answer 2012

Who created Bolt Action?

Answer the same individual who created Rogue Trader and some other fellow GW employees.

Since 2000 they hae lost most of the real creative force behind their games and these individuals are now completing against GW with:

Bolt Action – Warlord Games
Kings of War – Mantic Games

They have made decisions that cost them customers – thus sales.

They have a very long track record of screwing over their customers, which is never good for a company.

I seriously doubt Bolt Action or Kings of War have taken a nibble, much less a bite, out of GW's bottom line. I play Bolt Action but couldn't find more than a couple of people interested in WWII to play against unless I provide all the miniatures and bring the rules. I'm actually trying to get a couple of my 40K buddies to play Bolt Action with my well painted armies but they showed little interest. Most stores in my area don't carry Bolt Action because they stock Flames of War and don't want it to undermine Battlefront products.

Kings of War and Warpath have even fewer players and none of the stores within a 50-mile radius from me carry their products. If you want to propose a serious competitor for GW at least make it believable, like bringing up Warmachine/Hordes or FOW.