"New US Laws of War Manuel and Journalism" Topic

"FM" – field manual?

Yes, – Field Manual …

Yes, bad things happen in war and sometimes 'good' people are put into positions where they have to make dreadful, life and death decisions at urgent speed. That is why these Laws of War rules exist, to restrain the hands of soldiers, marines, sailors and airmen from crossing lines and bringing shame and dishonour on the Armed Forces of states which attempt to hold themselves to a higher standard than unrestrained states and non state actors.

Agreed, but humans make mistakes … in the heat of the moment. Even with good training, experience, etc. … But I think we all can agree, US/Western troops very rarely commit any sort of war crime, etc. … Especially inlight of the barbarians the West is engaging today.

The founding fathers of the United States made sure that soldiers/sailors, officers, congressmen, and presidents take an oath to defend the Constitution of the USA from all enemies, foreign and domestic …

I know, that is in the oath we took as soldiers. I've said it and gave it to troops a number of times. I don't need reminding … But I'm sure some do …

why then would journalists that are part of unlawful non-state combatant organizations not be considered unlawful combatants?

Well, for a start because the term 'unlawful combatants' doesn't exist.

It's an imaginary term used by the US to justify war crimes.

Not just the US, as the concept has been included in the 1899 and 1907 Hague Conventions, as well as the Additional Protocols to the Geneva Conventions of 1977.

Either you are a combatant entitled to protection under Geneva III, or you are a civilian, and MAY entitled to protections under Geneva IV, but also subject to the civilian laws of the nation holding them (oddly, not the nation where they were captured).

As far as being a protected civilian under Geneva IV, well, Article 4 says, "Persons protected by the Convention are those who at a given moment and in any manner whatsoever, find themselves, in case of a conflict or occupation, in the hands of persons a Party to the conflict or Occupying Power of which they are not nationals.
"Nationals of a State which is not bound by the Convention are not protected by it. Nationals of a neutral State who find themselves in the territory of a belligerent State, and nationals of a co-belligerent State, shall not be regarded as protected persons while the State of which they are nationals has normal diplomatic representation in the State in whose hands they are."

Geneva IV Article 4 goes further to state that anyone who meets the definitions in Geneva III Article 13 is NOT protected by Geneva IV.

But as Rob noted, the guidelines do not require for any investigation into the credentials of the individual – it covers all journalists, not jsut ones belonging to news organisations the USA finds awkward.

If the individual is spying, current international law covers that situation already.

And what happens when the "journalist" is actively creating and disseminating propaganda, or actively inciting violence, in the same manner of a member of one of the parties to a conflict? As I've mentioned repeatedly, military journalists are considered combatants (because they are members of the military).

I have changed my mind, I think that the US is asserting that journalists accompanying non-state combatants and actively aiding said non-state combatants are to be considered combatants under the Geneva Conventions. After all, according to Geneva III they are entitled to POW status and medical treatment just like a member of the national armed forces party to the conflict.

As I've mentioned repeatedly, military journalists are considered combatants (because they are members of the military).

Yes, that is true … whether you are a cook or clerk typists … you are a soldier.

link

Lion makes a very reasonable argument based on international law or "the rules as written" to use gamer lingo. :-)

But even the US ignores those rules when inconvenient. I believe that the bottom line on this rule is to simply leave more room to kill those we believe to be supporting the nbad guys, with or without proof. It's sort of like the Orwellian transformation of "torture" techniques for which we executed some Japanese after WWII to "enhanced interogation techniques". Or, as Nixon said, "when the president (US) does it, it is not illegal." :-)

So endeth The Rule of Law and verily the Leviathan was awakened to enslave man once more. Freedom and liberty must be fought for by each and every generation or despots will wrest away these precious gifts won by the blood of ancestors. The role of the media/free-press is to expose the despots before they are too powerful to impose tyranny and check the might of powerful and fundamentally anti-democratic interests and institutions. As a society, we are sleep-walking towards a totalitarian surveillance state, propped up by a praetorian military and militarized LEO's. Like the medieval monks who were the soldiers of God and who protected the population from invisible spirits and demons, the Fourth/Fifth Estate protects us from the invisible tendrils of power, corruption and abuse of power which threaten our liberty as much as oriental theology and Marxist ideology ever did. No weapons are visible and no buildings topple, but the war is as real as any hot war which rages today. But due to the society-wide social anesthetics of consumerism (which exhausts us as we run from job to bank to store) and entertainment (which distracts us when we are too exhausted to run anymore) we do not see the creeping despotism for what it is.
It is truly a shame that on the 800th anniversary of the signing of the Magna Carta at Runnymede, which gave the West the concept of Constitutional Government, we seem to be on the verge of losing it.
Rod Robertson.

Praetorian military? In the US?!?

Not any time this century.

The US military stays well clear of politicians. partly to prevent accusations of favoritism/endorsement, and partly because the troops typically hate politicians.

Oh Lord, must we suffer through this dramatic and posturing hogwash? TMP is usually a worthwhile forum for discussion of miniatures, of military miniatures, and then even useful discussion of military history.

But Rod's insistence on climbing upon a soapbox and squeaking his (misguided) political views to the world, nothing to do with miniatures, let alone military history, distort TMP's role and usefulness.

tuscaloosa:
You wrote:
"But Rod's insistence on climbing upon a soapbox and squeaking his (misguided) political views to the world, nothing to do with miniatures, let alone military history, distort TMP's role and usefulness."
It is intriguing how one man's opinion of what is valid to post on TMP differs from another's. A quick, but by no means comprehensive, search of your recent posts revealed quite a few "political" posts by you and others with whom you were in discussion.
I understand you do not like my expressed opinions but I honestly feel that they inform modern gaming and contemporary military history. So while I am sorry I have annoyed you, I also believe I have every right to comment upon such matters in the way I do. So I shall squeak, squawk and wax poetic from my perch upon your notional soap box, because the only thing which protects free speech and freedom of the press is the continual and forcefully exercise of these rights in the face of those would muzzle such public discourse.
I do not presume to judge you or limit your right to free expression, so why do you feel the need to belittle me and mine, I wonder? Attack the ideas and not the poster. Argue the case against protecting journalists in times of war and I will listen.
Cheers.
Rod Robertson.

Kyoteblue:
How do we in the hobby learn about war in the contemporary period? We do so through the media at our disposal and through journalism. As one moves closer and closer to the present day, the reliance on the reports of journalists becomes greater and greater as there has been insufficient time for military and historical analysis to produce papers and books on immediate events. Thus the ability of a free press to report on modern conflicts is absolutely central to our understanding of these contemporary conflicts and the US MilItary's changes to the Laws of War are germane to modern military wargaming.
These issues are too important to the hobby to be hidden behind a blue door. The basis of the hobby is simulating conflict with miniatures. That can only be done if hobbyists have access to full and unbiased (or at least a wide spectrum of biased) journalism upon which to base their hobby. Thus any change in military law which could effect that journalism seems to me to be fair game for TMP on the Ultramodern Board. Perhaps I am wrong so I welcome any argument why this is inappropriate.
Cheers and good gaming.
Rod Robertson.
PS. link

I believe it is relevant to ultra modern miniature gaming because:
1/ it informs scenerio design – both bias of source and VP conditions
2/ it informs scenerio Rules Of Engagement

While some posters have expressed political views – the level is IMO below DH… But if you feel it isn't relevant, don't read, if offended complain to the ed.

As a result of thus thread I'm thinking about putting some media figures (20mm conversions) into my next game. Pics will be posted :-)

Praetorian military? In the US?!?

Not any time this century.

The US military stays well clear of politicians. partly to prevent accusations of favoritism/endorsement, and partly because the troops typically hate politicians.

Agree completely !

Oh Lord, must we suffer through this dramatic and posturing hogwash? TMP is usually a worthwhile forum for discussion of miniatures, of military miniatures, and then even useful discussion of military history.

But Rod's insistence on climbing upon a soapbox and squeaking his (misguided) political views to the world, nothing to do with miniatures, let alone military history, distort TMP's role and usefulness.

I have to agree … also …

Someone somewhere makes a 15mm miniature with an M16, and therefore all discussions are valid, on topic and worthy of inclusion :)

(at least that's as far as I've ever been able to figure out the rules)

Just got my copies of Modern Land Battles – could use models and terrain for the card based game, but probably will stick with CD-TOB Bobs Mod Mods to game Bn to Bde in 20mm – just need the time.
Anyone else have played MLB?