"Age of Sigmar: GW Response to Warmachine or Trend in Gaming?" Topic

I don't know a lot about the Age of Sigmar rules but so far conventional wisdom seems to hold that AoS is a response to games such as Warmachine/Hordes which require fewer figures per army (although event many of those games seem to be undergoing serious army-bloat). The idea is that WHFB is losing ground to games which allow a player to spend less time and money and still have a full gaming experience. So, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em, or so the theory goes.

But is that view accurate? Might it not be a response to OTHER miniatures games but a response to other cultural factors, the chief among these being:

- miniatures are getting more expensive across the board and fielding a few hundred 28mm figures simply isn't viable for most people

- competition for gamers' leisure time is growing, especially wrt video/PC games. I know that horse has been beaten to a pulp for many years, but things are truly different today. Computers/consoles/phones are powerful enough today to allow a player to command vast miniature armies in real time. One of my sons has never expressed interest in collecting Napoleonic miniatures but he loves a PC game that puts the player in the role of a Napoleonic regimental commander. He loves the period's column-line-square tactics but doesn't want to paint hundreds of figures to experience them.

So if this isn't just a response by GW to other games is it really a ground shift for the entire industry? Are games such as Warmachine, Infinity, Malifaux, Dark Age, Saga, Bolt Action, etc. the future of gaming while games requiring hundreds of figures (remember Napoleon's Battles and Fire and Fury?) are a thing of the past?

Do more wargamer/consumers want to engage in the hobby while expending less money and even less time getting to the tabletop? Or do games with hundreds of 15mm or 28mm figures still have a commercially viable future? What's your opinion?

I think I saw this same sentiment in Wargames Illustrated in 1980….

Trying to predict, or even identify, trends in wargaming is like herding cats – a complete waste of time.

All you will get from people are opinions or narrow experiences. There is noone that is in a position to view all aspects of the 'industry' as a whole to make valid judgements.

Not trying to predict a coming trend, just asking if the horses are out of the barn already! :-)

I'm just not seeing old school games with hundreds of figures at our FLGS anymore. It's all "grand skirmish" games of 5-6 figures per side (e.g. Infinity, Malifaux, etc.) or maybe 4-6 units of several figures each (e.g. Warmachine, Saga, Bolt Action, etc.)

No massed ACW, Napoleonic, Medieval, or Ancients armies with hundreds of close order figures. Even WHFB isn't being played as much.

If it was a reaction to these games, why not create a new brand rather than reinvent a core product? I like Warhammer because of the fluff. Now that's gone. The new miniatures look unappealing to me. The new rules better be amazing.

No they are not the wave of the future.

I remember way back in 1968 when I was a wee lad I salivated in silence at the beautiful 30mm Surens and Staddens in "CHARGE" and other games book and how on a paycheck of $60 USD a week as a part time copy boy in a newspaper I would NEVER be able to afford even a small unit of twenty four of them.

Now I have armies of thousands of them, and enough unpainted lead to shield me from the radiation of a nuclear war.

How did I get them? Unit by unit over the years, at first through extreme privation of not eating lunches at college, scrimping here and there and as my socio- economic status improved, being able to buy more and more until now I would think nothing of plunking down thousands for another pile of lead.

This argument, as Extra Crispy notes, has been going on forever. I have heard countless laments from people about how the cost o minis is just too high, and it's SOOOOooooo expensive to buy them. Usually these people just mooched off other peoples armies and never bought one gram of lead themselves.

Dick Bryant of the Courier once coined the phrase "In the life." Meaning, if one was "in the wargaming life" or one was just a dilettante, a period butterfly who might buy a miniature here, a squad there, just to get a fig-leaf of legitimacy to be able to game with the guys.

If you're in the life, you're in it FOR life, and you don't worry about the cost. You only worry how cool they will look when you get them painted.

Wargames is a great hobby with a monstrously large reservoir of fun and pleasure, and the cost to get that pleasure is ridiculously cheap. But you have to be in the life. War games is also a great winnower, and if you're not prepared to pay the price to "be in the life" then it's time for collecting tin foil or Tupperware for you.

I get what you're saying Otto but this time things seem different. It's not just money but also time.

It all started with unpainted armies. Now it's very small unpainted armies that we're seeing at the FLGS! :-)

I started gaming in the late 80s and, like you, have fond memories of my meager starter wargame armies. We'd play Rogue Trader with a squad or two per side and a heavy weapon or dreadnought in support. That's all we could afford at the time as poor (literally) young people fresh out of college.

Today I live in a wealthy Atlanta suburb but I still don't see giant armies being fielded at the FLGS. I too have mountains of lead in my basement gathered over many years (if it were gold I'd feel like Smaug!) and there's lots of disposable income in our area yet no grand Napoleonic or fantasy armies.

Occasionally a FLGS will run a WHFB tournament and that's the closest I've seen to old school big battle gaming and now AoS seems to be eclipsing even that last refuge of big armies.

I understand that the topic has been around for many years. The difference this time is that i don't think we're seeing Big Battle Armies at the FLGS anymore.

I can't speak for AoS since I never played WHFB, but how much smaller can a game based on moving entire regiments get? I mean, it's not a small-scale warband type game like Mordheim which is skirmish like the others you mentioned.

As a 40K player I can unequivocally say that it's getting bigger with its current detachment-based system of army building. You can now play big battles in regular "vanilla" 40K that used to be only possible with 40K Apocalypse.

I think OSchmidt really strikes a chord for me- I too remember thinking I could never afford in money or time the ranks of figure that I craved yet now I have vast armies covering many periods. That is because I love it, i am committed to it -I would rather spend my money on history books and models than a car or holidays and I'd rather spend my time painting, building, reading and gaming than pretty much anything else.

"- miniatures are getting more expensive across the board and fielding a few hundred 28mm figures simply isn't viable for most people"

Really? It doesnt seem to be an issue for many I know, but certainly a more likely problem is devoting time to such projects.

Plastics seem to have brought the cost down in many cases. But it really comes down to personal preference and time you are willing to devote to projects. Of my group, all have at least one unviable army of 28mm figures thats being collected.

I think its very hard to make broad sweeping generalisations of a hobby that by its nature is a very personal experience. We have no evidence to back many claims posters make everyday… Bit like the old 'greying' of the hobby chestnut which I read was a problem in 'Battle' for wargamers once.

I think GWs new approach has as much to do with IP rebranding as anything else. Plus revitalising a game system that has suffered a slow deatch over the last 20 years but represents a large investment in plastic kits. It needs to make them some money… So reinvent, in a game thhts simple, can be played from small to large numbers and make all the names GW property…

Especially given that the game seems scalable to large battles from the bumpf sent to retailers it would seem they are trying to target all likely players, not appeal to one core demographic.

Hard-core GW fans on WFB-specific web forums have been analyzing GW corporate financial data for several years (and some of these guys are pretty competent financial-types), and have been saying that fantasy sales have been in steady decline to where they make up only a small fraction of GW's bottom line though still requiring a significant overhead investment (in other words, the ROI, return-on-investment, for fantasy is far lower than 40k). The decline of fantasy sales had gotten to the point that GW was seriously contemplating canceling fantasy altogether; this new reboot Age of Sigmar, etc., is an attempt to save a fantasy range while jettisoning the warhammer fantasy battles paradigm.

I personally believe they could have chosen other routes to reinvigorate fantasy sales, but GW for years now operates under a ruthless bottom-line business culture that is seemingly divorced from any "hobby sensibilities"--most seem to think GW is run by people who could care less whether they are making miniatures or widgets. This new fantasy game looks as though it is borrowing heavily from 40k with some LOTR SBG tossed in, which actually makes good sense from a purely business perspective because both those systems are/were far more successful financially for GW. Now, I agree, there are several other variables at work, but if you assume GW management is looking at this problem from a purely business perspective it makes some sense what they are doing.

I can only go by what I have seen in various shops.It seems to me it's all about finding other players. 40k is very popular because you can find so many other people who collect and play, although I do see many unpainted armies on tables. I have seen a growth of people showing up to play Warmachine lately. The staggering amount of people that I see show up in shops are the ones playing Magic. Frankly, I play 40k because I can readily find opponents. When I do find others to play other periods or games, I usually have to provide everything. I have found that some people I talk to find the painting part intimidating. Not only do they have to buy the figures, they have to invest in the brushes and paint. Those aren't cheap either. That does lead to things like Heroclix. I still see that as pretty popular in the local gaming shop. My personal opinion is that the game is limited by how may super heroes are available. I watched a game where both sides had many of the same heroes albeit of different point ratings.

I think GW's new approach has as much to do with IP rebranding than anything else.

I agree.

And realize that at some point, GW is competing with itself as well as all it's imitators. How many revisions of "wood elves" have there been since, say 3rd edition (when a degree of faction 'standardization' started to gel)? How many times can GW re-invent that wheel? With this, presumably (I mean, we only have two blurry pages to go by) they are tossing out THAT baggage, worn Tolkien-based fantasy tropes, and setting up an IP distinct from copycat manufacturers.

I'm not saying I'm happy with it, but I can totally see why they'd do it.

And back tot the OP, it's not so that mass armies are a time suck, but they've priced themselves out of that viability. If you are going to charge $50 USD of a boxed set of ten HUMAN-SIZED models, you'd damn sure better not tell me I need SEVERAL boxes to make a viable unit out of them.

THAT'S the problem. So, now we have "warband" units.

And comparing Warhammer to Napoleonics is just plain silly, for a number of reasons. Most notably, I can buy my Bavarian chevauleger from a dozen companies or more, and a unit won't utterly destroy my Grownass Man paycheck.

Dear Green Tiger

Welcome brother, you are "in the life!"

Outsiders can never know the joy of it. I too would rather spend my money on books and soldiers and art than on cars or sporting events.

Luckily for me I have a NON FICTION ONLY book store a few miles from me which is packed with history, science art books and volumes from old collectsions. Huge history section, and they sell these things for dirt cheap. Huge folio art books with lots of color illustrations for $16. USD

Luckily my mortgate is paid.

It is possible to have fun without being "in the life" as Otto defines it. I am a long-time gamer but my "collection" is minuscule (both in terms of scale and # of figures). Lately, I've been having great fun with One Hour Wargames sized armies on a gridded board. Personally, I prefer it that way, despite any sneers I may garner from the "lifers."

Dear Visceral impact studios.

I understand what you say but I maintain it's no different. From about forty years ago I started prozeltyzing and evangelizing the hobby. I took my game to Hobby stores and had friends over, along with their children. Many of them said they were "Warhammer Players" and the like and acted rather blasé about historical gaming. Some at a store once just kind of hung around, a little peeved that they weren't doing their normal war whackyerweenie thing.

Then I brought out The Princess' Army. Ranks upon ranks of men in glorious color and glorious flags, and the uniforms a blaze of color. The young-uns eyes went wide like cartoon characters, and even the older glum and bored teens perked up. Then I put out on the other side the Army of The Empire of Ikea, A mythical Turkish Army with Bennenjeries, Bashi Bazooks, Delis, Tatars, huge guns, and war-Elephants. Oh I know the Turks didn't use them, but they didn't know that.

Soon the whole place was clamoring to play, they loved moving the gorgeous figures, the dioramas on the elephants, and they were hooked. Perhaps it was also the delicious pastries and snacks instead of junk food, the very very softly playing music in one corner of intermixed fifes and drums and symphonies, but they were hooked.

You have to see the spectacular extravaganza's to be intoxicated and become addicted to them.

I maintain that one of the key things is that I use Imagi-nary armies. It's not straight nappies or ancients. There's a lot of imagination, make-believe and whimsy thrown in. So there's a bit of the unreal like Battle Ball Peen. The names like "Gorre and Daphetid" Regiment "L' Arches D'Or" (with big mac and fries in the quadrants of the French-Like flag. The Hell's Belles (The Princess personal bodyguard) and of course on the Ikean side the Bennenjerries (Jannisaries) all in sherbert colors with a one-man ban with drum, trumpets, flute, accordion, jingling johnny and cymbals between the knees all make for fun, whimsical fantasia that's hard to resist.

And when I begin explaining the rules, and start talking about "Lord Beaverhunt's Horse" or "The Rottingham dragoons" or when I start with "You're Shah Na-Na, the Nattering nabob of Negativism commanding the Ikean Army, and you, pointing to the other side are the Prince of Zweibak and your sub general here, General Potzunpans…

The place dissolves in snickers and guffaws, and … they are let in on the joke… this is not old fuddy-duddy stuff at all. With a wink and a nudge and a broad burlesque they soon get into the game.

(this is the moment you que the tape player to play Sousa's "Gliding Girl Tango."

Dear List

Oh yes, I never need others to buy the figures. I have plenty for all. I always do all sides.

I'm now getting ready my YO-HO=HO Naval Rules which use large 12" ship of the lines which can accomidate 25mm to 30mm figures in a land sea-action with the forces of the Grand Duke of the Grand Duchy of Gorgonzola.

Remember, large, big visually striking.

I admit, I'm nothing but a circus barker at the cheesy sideshow but it's fun.

Maybe those who don't see a trend don't see it because, as Otto points out, they're already "in the life".

Maybe the question is best answered by those who own shops and manufacture figures.

As someone else pointed out GW, the 800 pound gorilla, can't sustain "Big Battle Fantasy" as a business.

At our FLGS the shelves and cases are filled with Magic, X-Wing, Warmachine , and board games. All share a common feature: convenience. Everything is either ready-made or needs a far smaller investment than an old school mass battle game.

For $100 USD Imperial Assault provides everything you need for skirmish gaming in the Star Wars universe. That same $100 USD would also purchase a full army+ for infinity, warmachine, etc., but only a fraction of an army for WHFB.

Is anyone seeing people buying, painting and then playing with large Mass Battle armies at their FLGS on a routine basis? I'm not.

I think Visceral is onto something. When I go into the various stores in my area what I regularly see is Bolt Action with a few items on the board, Star Wars Armada and Star Trek Attack Wing with their pre-painted miniatures, Saga, and other games with few miniatures. Yes, there are still WH40K and WF games going on, but I can't remember the last time I even saw an army that was half painted. With so many entertainment, hobby, and sports options bidding for your time something has to give and that appears to be painting miniatures. I'm definitely a holdout to this new way in the hobby as I'm still cranking out large units and running some pretty sizable games, but I'm definitely in the minority.

It depends. Big games won't be going anywhere but obviously a smaller investment will mean it's easier to get people into it.

Infinity and Warmachine showed that people will pay well above average per figure, provided you don't have to buy very many, so it may be a sound enough investment in any event, from the publisher.

Basically, people look at the total cost to play, not the cost per item.

Where I'm at, the big armies are small mini's (15mm and below).

There seemed to have been a trend toward skirmish gaming in what I was painting 5-8 years ago, but since there have been a lot of 28mm plastics released, it seems to be going the other way.

I am just finishing up a Napoleonic force with 48 man units in 28mm.

Given GW's past record it does look rather like them coming late to the party – on the other hand GW has had a number of skirmish-scale systems over the years.

The general consensus seems to be that the fashion is for small games at the moment, and possibly convenience, the fact that GW has decided to blow with the wind is perhaps surprising only in in that can be read as a tacit acknowledgement that a wider gaming industry does exist outside their shops/clubs.

@OSchimdt
The Empire of Ikea army sounds brilliant.

Dear ROU

Thank you for the compliments.

Otto

also, "big battle" game periods like Napoleonic and ancients, at least in my neck of the woods, have never been been held in stores. the only big historical period games I've seen have been in my basement or at a convention. so i can't definitively say that because they are not at my FLGS, that they are not on the rise.

and local conventions also reinforce how things haven't really changed. There are still big battle historical games being put on in approximately the same proportion as 10 years ago.

that being said, skirmish games will almost always be more numerous(and have been since i started gaming in my early teens, 20 years ago) because the barrier to get into them(cost and time required to assemble/paint) is much lower.

the fact remains that not everyone has the time or money to built 500 figure napoleonic armies. that hasn't changed much in 20 years. the cost has gone down due to plastics(in historicals at least) but the time commitment certainly hasn't.

also in regards to the cost of paints and brushes, go buy cheap brushes and paints form Micheals. That's what I use. only thing I need from a FLGS for how I currently paint is GW washes.

VIS – just as I predicted, all you get is a small sub-set of experiences. All these are true in their way and within the limited scope of what they can and do see in their gaming lives.

BUT

I play with people to whom GW are merely a recent occurrence in an area of wargaming in which they have little or no interest. GW gamers (which is only a sub-set of fantasy/SciFi) may be in the majority but I doubt very much if they are the ones that ever had the large armies of historical figures.

I also live in the UK so a shop that sells historical figures is a rarity, even rarer if you don't want plastics. The majority of games shops are GW so you don't have the same sort of demographics as in the US. Most games are played at clubs or in people's houses and large table full of figures are a fairly common sight at those venues.

Not saying that my little experiences are any more valid that they others BUT there will be a huge number of others, all different in some way. They point to nothing and mean less for what will happen next.

Skirmish gaming probably also has the cross-market appeal.

It's easy to "sell" to people coming from RPG's or a lot of the dungeon crawling style board games.

"Basically, people look at the total cost to play, not the cost per item."

Bang on. Plus 'Time to Field' per unit – how long it's going to take to get your toys painted and on the table.

eg I have a rough '£100 per side' budget if I start a new collection and it makes no odds in cost whether that's a handful of painted Langton ships off eBay or 150+ or so Perry plastics. These days I lean to limited numbers of more expensive figures as it's quicker to paint (say) a dozen old Necromunda figure than 150+ Perry plastics.

As a parent, I'd be happy to see my cash being spent on a handful of GW figures that may actually get painted than lots of plastic figures that remain on their sprues/undercoated only. As much as it'll be a shame not to be able to pass down my old High Elf armies en masse, from a wallet point of view the new AoS doesn't look 'quite' as much of a pocket money killer as WFB would be.

Erasmus of Rotterdam wrote, "When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left I buy food and clothes."

Change the word "books" to "miniatures." Remind you of anyone?

While expense is the main reason ONE major wargames company prevents anyone from building the grand armies of long ago, perhaps another factor influences choices these days.

Not only are smaller "armies" cheaper, and the way they are sold these days makes them far more convenient, but smaller armies are also more "personal". For newcomers and players involved in other types of games (video games), this personal feel may make the game seem more like they are actually a part of the action.

They are the 1st person shooters of the miniature wargaming hobby.

Dan 055, that's an excellent comparison. Given that many youngsters – my son included – play such games, it's not surprising that they might expect/desire something similar when venturing into wargaming with miniatures.

OTOH, Call of Duty and similar games are so fast moving and visually stimulating that conventional wargaming cannot easily compete with them.

As to expense, part of the problem is the insistence upon high/unnecessary detail on small models, so that one generic figure with an appropriate paint job is no longer an acceptable way to represent historical armies…

I have noticed that board games are riding high, as my local shop now dedicates a day to board gaming. I know that the Wil Wheaton show Tabletop has had major influence in this. I wonder what the influence would be if he did a splinter show on miniature gaming. he did just create a show on RPG.

If Wil Wheaton did shows on skirmish gaming it would probably see a rise. I personally went out and bought X-Wing (plus expansions) only after seeing him play it on Tabletop. If he played Warmachine or something, I guarantee it would cause a bump in interest.

Delta Bravo – I think you have really hit on something as regards "Time to Field" units. I enjoy my units once they are painted, but in my case, it takes forever.

Are prepainted figures the way to revive big unit gaming.? To me, cost is less of a factor than assembly and painting.

The group I game with fields monstrously sized units. As an example, we have 10,000 painted Orcs……yes, 10,000.

That said, we are a bit grey-haired and the younger gamers who join us are not so prolific as regards building armies (that said, they don't really need to given the great numbers of figures we already have).

Due to appearance of great quality plastics 28mm is actually getting cheaper – that's GW's problem.

So they go with weird large expensive figures so you can't subsitute anything else.

Big battles are fun and never cheaper thanks to plastic revolution.

Just remount all your old Warhammer stuff for DBA3.0/HOTT and have at it (better rules to boot).

TomT

Actually it occurs to me that WFB in its 1st and 2nd edition actually revolved fairly small numbers of figures. IIRC the introductory campaign for WFB 2 and the Lich Master campaign had unit sizes not more than 20 – for the Lich Master I'm sure the biggest battle came it at under 100 figures? At that stage WFB definitely had something of a scaled up 'dungeon bash'-thing going. Though clearly by Ravening Hordes that had changed with ~30 being the more typical size.

To answer the OP: Yes, certainly the trend in miniatures gaming: Many of us still enjoy playing with 20-30 (or 200-300) models per side, but manufacturers have caught on to the fact that people will spend the same amount of money to play a game regardless of figure count, meaning that a consumer will part with 100 work-units for 5 miniatures as easily as he will part with 100 work-units for 25 miniatures. This means more profit for the manufacturer in question, as production cost per miniature on their end has not increased (all else being equal).
Also, character driven battles help prevent proxy-use and recasting, solidifying sales and brand-loyalty.
This trend is bound up with 'collectable card/component' business model, where various iterations of full-color card stock are required to play with such miniatures using the supported/FLGS present rules, itself an product of 'tournament' culture: to be competitive you have to buy the new product, and if said product includes previously unreleased printed material you MUST buy from said manufacturer, etc… this is easier with character driven game scales a la Pokemon style combat.
I enjoy these sorts of games, but they are obviously taking over the market presence because of their high profitability. This is doubtless contributing to a more 'gamey' and less 'modeling' feel to our hobby, as folks become less accustomed to having to paint more than a handful of miniatures to play a game/system (I know I can't paint more than a dozen 28mms these days…)
GW is just following the trend, which is profit driven (no surprises there, and it's not a sin, but I obviously feel that the entire trend is a detriment to our hobby as it is squeezing out the more creative and artistic side of the experience in favor of the 'collectable/tournament/FLGS/ready-made' side of the experience…)
As far as WFB goes, I couldn't care less, since that title ceased to be either affordable or fun for the sane about twenty years ago….

Funny thing is …If GW is following the trend, why did they toss out their small scale games 20 years ago? Mordheim, Necromunda, Gorka Morka…Even their large scale Inquisitor. They were all small scale skirmish games needing less then 20 figs for the most part. BUT NO…they went for the cash cow, beefed up their big army games and rewrote the rules and army lists to generate more income.

If anything those days are over and they are trying to stay competitive and alive. I would not be surprised to see a re release of those games in the future.

Funny thing is …If GW is following the trend, why did they toss out their small scale games 20 years ago? Mordheim, Necromunda, Gorka Morka…Even their large scale Inquisitor. They were all small scale skirmish games needing less then 20 figs for the most part. BUT NO…they went for the cash cow, beefed up their big army games and rewrote the rules and army lists to generate more income.

If anything those days are over and they are trying to stay competitive and alive. I would not be surprised to see a re release of those games in the future.

I was thinking the same thing.

The reason those games got pulled was because they didnt sell enough figures. How many people were buying six or seven necromunda gangs or Mordheim Warbands. Even if they did buy that many thats only maybe 100 figures or so. Thats a small 40k army and a good start for a Warhammer army.

I am curious to see how Age of Sigmar goes forward. there is too much unsubstantiated info out there right now to have any idea what they have in mind.

On one hand they seem to be shooting for a smaller figure count game all the while telling people that there are no more points limits and no maximums for unit size.

There's no trend really. GW simply realizes that there are people who can't afford to play Warhammer if large armies are required, so they have to give gamers the option of using smaller armies.

By keeping it open ended with no point limits, the richer gamers can still play battles with large armies to their hearts' content.

Sounds like a "win-win."

Erasmus of Rotterdam wrote, "When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left I buy food and clothes."

Change the word "books" to "miniatures." Remind you of anyone?

*raises hand*

From what I've seen yesterday, they're creating a fully copyrated universe, where will be no goblins, but grots, no elfs, but aefar (sp?), etc. Simple rules, might be just several pages worth, very distinguished look of the models. May be it will work for children/teens, think I'm done with GW.
Of course, small scale gaming seems to be very popular – see millions collected by stuff like Zombicide or Black Plague – they look as a simplified Mordheim, or Rum & Bones.
However…why should I go to GW when you have all these alternatives?
But it is really seems that we're seing the end of certain era for fantasy gaming…

The reason those games got pulled was because they didnt sell enough figures. How many people were buying six or seven necromunda gangs or Mordheim Warbands?

There's got to have been more than just me.

At the time, I owned at least one of every Necromunda/Confrontation sculpt I could get hold of.

And, as I have stated here many times before- at our FLGS, it was a HUGE gateway game to WH40K. Surely, that wasn't JUST us?

However…why should I go to GW when you have all these alternatives?

Because they're free? And you can use all your old figures?

link

Better grab those free-to-download items before GW makes them no longer free.

Though I can see one good thing about the Warscrolls idea: No more army books for GW to print and have to update every couple years.

Instead of army books they'll probably release $upplementary $cenario pack$… ;-)

Really, I think there's a few issues with WFB that needed to be dealt with.

One is the endless model count creep. Over the last three or four editions it went from a game where you needed maybe eighty to a hundred figures to two hundred or more for a standard sized tournament game. Now, in 40k you're still in the 40 – 100 figure range and have maybe half a dozen vehicles. Price wise 40k is more expensive but time and effort wise it's much easier to get into.

40k is cooler. Okay, sad but true, teenage boys like mega heroes with giant guns better than grim, desperate men with pointy sticks.

Fantasy seems to keep getting drowned in special case rules and sequence exceptions. Eighth edition drove me nuts with this. For every place they cleaned up and fixed a rule there were two unnecessary complications of the game sequence. Heck melee went elves, impact hits, initiative order, stomp attacks with everything but initiative being simultaneous. Initiative order straight up was just fine but they couldn't leave it alone. They just had to keep on layering on the mess because they didn't want to invalidate existing army books.

The new game addresses these issues.

I'm not the customer base now and indeed with this edition there is nothing left in Warhammer fantasy that appeals to me. It'll be Kings of War, Fantacide, Chaos Wars, and Fantasy Warriors from now on I suppose.

I don't know if GW is crazy or brilliant and only time will tell. Hopefully the competition will drag them down, burn their corpse and salt the earth.

History does not repeat itself but it does Rhyme.

Insert "Trends in military miniatures war games" for History.

I see and recognize a lot of the justification of the arguments on this list on marketing mantras people have heard somewhere and allowed into their taxonomy. I have heard them all in my career as Director of Planning in industry, and having had essentially the same job through six different industries. I could at this point write you a wonderful dissertation on the idiocy of marketing, and what a sham it is, but I shan't, and will simply move on to that area of the human mind which marketing cannot understand-- ever.

Obsession.

Now, let's go back to industry and business. Otto's rule #18 is

"If you have a product people want, they will tear it out of your hands to get it, and marketing is completely unnecessary." Marketing is only necessary to get people to buy what they don't want, or to buy our version of Product X rather than their version of product X, and so since Product X is pretty much identical, most of marketing involves chicanery.

But let us go back.

What drives war games, especially miniature war games, is obsession, and that obsession will never abate, stop or reverse itself unless through an inner transformation of the mental construction of the obsessed.

Obsession derives from deep seated mental and physiological quirks, traits, and perhaps even neurosis and psychosis, such that compel a person in an irrational way, and on an unconscious level. Oh we may explain these things in a completely rational way, but that's a delusion, what we are doing is using reason not for explanation, but for rationalization.

So you can see that the quality of obsession is unique and particular to the individual that is inflicted with it, and only coincidentally resident in another, if at all. Here "marketing strategy" falls flat (as do siumlations most egregious arrogancies" because such deep seated emotional obsessions cannot be even known let alone explained, and if they cannot be explained, they cannot be perverted to a marketing strategy which is all about getting people to buy something they either don't need, or to by Company "A"'s version of Product X, rather than Company B's version of product X.

As you will noticed where GW is concerned, there are a number of PC games on the market with Total Warhammer about to hit the shelves. Perhaps figure gaming may become the secondary cash stream in their case.
Also, there is a growing number of 6mm games being played by the looks of things. Perhaps the 6mm manufacturers could tell how much of an increase, if any, they have had over the last 5 years?