"In defence (or attack) of Role Playing in Miniature Gaming." Topic

Does Role playing with the personal level or personality of the commander have a place in miniature gaming? Does it "break the spell" by forcing the player to move swiftly from the "generalized whole" the grand sweep of the action, to the individual volition and behavior sphere which can be jarring or even destructive of the attention of the gamer?

I think there's an artificial distinction between role playing and wargaming. In every wargame I've ever seen, there's been role playing as players narrate an explanation for the dice results.

Simulating one level of command is fine, but I like to move across these, getting focused on detail here and looking at the bigger picture at other times. It's like I'm directing my own movie. Rulesets don't spend enough time considering different styles of play.

I would argue miniature gaming IS a style of role playing….I am Grant at Shiloh riding the line, steadying the boys (rolls for rally), feeding in reserves (activates 3rd division), lighting a fire under Sherman (gives him 3 command pips).

It all depends on one's own suspension of disbelief and whether or not it's broken.

If you replace Grant with John in command at Shiloh, I might take fewer risks with my namesake. I usually play as if the soldiers are real and try not to make sacrifice moves like the "It's the last turn! All in!" sorts of maneuvers. Adding yourself as the personality adds a little something.

Back in the early days of squad leader, we would use the leader development rules. You start with a 7-0 leader and got some "EXP" for various acts of bravery and tasks. Invariably, we would end up dead on the field. Occasionally, someone would level to an 8-0 leader only to get mowed down in a hail of gunfire in the next scenario. Great fun all the same!

I think it depends on the size of engagement. I also think it has to do with the group you game with.

I don't know about literally treating a wargame as an RPG but playing to one's view of a force's behavior doesn't "break the spell", it enhances the experience.

If I'm running an Orc horde but playing it like a Roman legion then something's wrong. Orcs should wildly charge the enemy. And if I'm treating high elves like Celts then you have another problem.

Part of that comes down to incentives created by game mechanics (e.g. a game should reward Orc players for charging wildly and high elf players for remaining cool and disciplined). But part of it comes down to gamer attitude too.

GW already slip this Personal leader role play into their games by heading the army lists with character models as solo figures or merged with units.
Back when I played the undead your whole army hinged on the general and his/her well being.
Nearly every 28mm skirmish game I have played has this sense of role play for each individual. Even if they do not 'level' up or improve their stats during the gameplay.

I've no imagination. This kind of thing is beyond me. I prefer a cast of thousands – that I can imagine.

I think by role playing in a wargame you have to look at what the commander/period/troops would do in a situation rather than what you would do as a player.

This has its benefits and its limitations.

If you are playing a commander that was historically known to be aggressive should you attack almost every time you can? Obviously you might not make obviously suicidal attacks in fruitless fashion even in this case but say you see long odds, knowing how the dice work, the commander may have attacked but do you?

If you are role playing that commander you could reasonably say "yes."

Same thing with troops.

If this unit was timid during the battle do you play them timidly or does the Farmer's Own Temporary Militia Battery charge with their guns towards the enemy and take up an advanced position way on the enemy flank by themselves because they aren't that useful but will get some good shots in.

To a lesser degree, because this should largely be dealt with by the rules themselves, do you role play within the period?

Are your 6th century Greeks using refused flank formations against each other?

It becomes a bit of a debate about how one plays the game. Is it just a game where you obey the rules but try different strategies than those employed by the commanders to win? Or is it more of a simulation of history where you try to stick as closely as possible to what the commanders would have done to achieve victory?

Too much of one and it isn't very historical anymore.

Too much of the other and you might as well just not roll the dice, just move the figures around the table in their historical movements.

I think you can strike a balance between the two and get away with the odd ahistorical thing in the name of keeping the game lively and fun.

But yes, I do see an aspect and benefit to some role playing in historical games.

I have seen rolegamers 'wargame' their characters and wargamers 'roleplay' their operational move/combats.

Depends on the gamegroup.

I have found it is easier to teach rolegamers' a wargame than to get wargamers to roleplay.

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Role Playing can be very subversive of miniature gaming and allow and encourage gamers to do things that are almost always inevitably detrimental to their side. That is, act in a way OTHER than what their role playing personal character would be. In fact, ANY character or persona adopted by the role player must necessarily be subversive of the view of the game itself as Olicana says.

However I don't know if you can ever divorce role playing from a game, as it sort of already is role playing itself as Extra Crispy notes.

But at the same time it is the very idea of ACTING differently than your real life counterpart did, PURPOSELY, even if you know it might be detrimental to your side that is part of the thrill and fun of gaming. Yes, I know that I as the Roman commanders must not charge forward into the Cartheginian center at Cannae, but… but…….

The best example of this was in a Wild West game which was a highly detailed and complex scenario the GM had put together. At the start of the game he was telling one 12 year old that it was essential that his character keep on the good side of the sheriff.

So what does the boy do turn 1 8 am. He shoots the Sheriff in the back, dead. The GM explodes "What did you do that for!!!" The kid says "I wanted to see what would happen."

There it is, the crooked timber of humanity.

Let me give you another incident from my ownlife. Many years ago in the 70's I was production manager of an industrial plant. I and the Packing and Warehouse manager were wandering around the back of the plant looking as to how we could make space for a new shipment of raw materials that was coming in. We were way way in the back corner and there was this door with an "exit" sign above it Well we opened the door to see where we came out of the building but found nothing but a long corridor with every 50 ft or so a door and no exit signs on it. We blocked our door open and explored this long passage way which wound around and around like a maze or a group of D&D corridors. Finally we came out to a large garage door which opened to the outside and which obviously had not been opend in years.

We noticed that there was a wooden wall coming down one side, and it stopped short of the masonry, leaving like a 15" gap. We squeezed through this gap and were amazed. We were standing in front of a HUGE electrical panel with dozens, perhaps hundreds of these huge knife blade controls that looked like they were straight out of the set of Dr. Frankenstein's Lab. Dozens, some of them humming and we knew they were live, and if we touched them we'd be fried like a little brown potato.

Right in the center of this panel was a HUGE (I Mean 18" across" red button that said on it in big white letters "Do not Push!"

Well…..

My warhouse manager slams it and suddenly air-raid sirens went off! Not only did they go off on our plant, but they went off all over the greater Paterson area! It seems, as we later found out, that we were an Old Curtis Wright building they had cut up for light industry, but this was the main control panel for ALL the other Curtis Wright Plants within 20 miles (and there were a lot of them.

We dashed back to the plant closed the door and acted like butter wouldn't melt in our mouths when the Firemen came.

Role playing-- "We wanted to see what would happen."

Made the dull dreary day fun. Were we ass holes and idiots? Of course. Would we do it all over again--- yup!

I bet that kid swore it was in self defense. And he did not kill the deputy. :-)

I have always selected one figure on the board to represent me and each of the other players are encouraged to select one as themselves too. That figure is then the commander of our assigned unit. If he is killed or wounded then that person is out of the game. The player still has to play his role as unit commander.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek
Bunker Talk blog