"'Junk Weapons' are Killing Kurdish Troops" Topic

"When I shoot, the top of the rifle flies off," Mahd Abdul Basit, a 28-year-old Peshmerga fighter told me while we stood a few hundred meters from Islamic State's front line.

Unlike many Kurdish troops, who must purchase their own weapons, Mahd's rifle — a taped-up Kalashnikov appearing to be made from several different rifles— was issued to him, and could still one day cost him his life.

Mahd stood in one of the Peshmerga's newly-built fortifications, known as "citadels." The sandbagged position, just 15 days old, is one of many that now punctuates the arid flat land on the front line southwest of the oil-rich city of Kirkuk.

Before January, this was Islamic State territory. A Kurdish offensive drove the militants back several kilometers — and both sides dug in for a long fight. Islamic State fighters are now entrenched about 800 meters away from the position, and still definitely a threat…"
Full article here
link

Amicalement
Armand

So THAT's where my old SLR went…

Maybe we should tell the Iraqis and their Persian allies to pound sand up their collective s … And arm the Kurds directly ! What's the worst that could happen ? A bloody religious, ethnic, tribal civil war with … no … wait … that already is happening…

(smile)

Amicalement
Armand

Legion – I don't think the Iraqis or Iranians are the reason no-one is arming the Kurds….

The reason will be the opposition of a NATO ally on whom we all rely rather a ot to operate in the region.

There would be no fall-out (or Iran-Kurd scandal) from Iran arming the Kurds since Turkey has no sway or leverage on Iran.

The Turkey that denied us their air bases. The Turkey that buys cut rate ISIS oil. The Turkey who's porous borders allow Isis recruits in and ISIS warriors out. That Turkey?

Legion, I'm with you. We need to send arms and provide training directly to the Kurds and quit farting around with the Iraqi government. They are corrupt and incapable of fighting without US intervention.

Americans privately own ~350million small arms. If we donated even 1% of those, the Kurds would have enough AR-15s to last them a good 5-10 years…

Or figure out some sort of deal to sell Kurdish oil to China, shipped through Iran, in exchange for Chinese weapons…..hmmmm, I just don't the right people to make a profit off of that idea. Damn.

Legion – I don't think the Iraqis or Iranians are the reason no-one is arming the Kurds….

It is one of a number. The West[US] does not want to upset the Iraqi polarized Shia gov't[in name only !] supported by the Persians. By by-passing them and arming the Kurds directly. As we all know a well armed and lead Kurdish region will claim independence once the Daesh threat is attrited. Which I'd laud in both cases. And since the Turkish leadership has no love for the Kurds, and they are the 2d largest military in NATO and moslem. The West [US] does not want to upset them. Plus the Turk leaders have no love for Assad. They will let Daesh, AQ, etc., etc. run amok in Syria, Iraq, etc. as it does not effect them. Plus the Turks are getting cheap bootlegged oil from Deash. Add to that the Saudis are sending arms to the Taliban instead of supporting the forces in their backyard against Daesh. As well as their performance is let than "satisfactory" in Yemen. Which reflects many in the region's combat "prowess". Save for Daesh who are pretty much kicking a lot of fellow moslem butt. The Persian leadership still hates the US. So no stu, that is not the only reason.

The reason will be the opposition of a NATO ally on whom we all rely rather a lot to operate in the region.

Relying on the Turks is questionable, as we saw in GWII, etc. … And their willingness to let Daesh run rampant and slaughter fellow moslems is shocking to me …

giving the Kurds a bunch of ARs wouldn't be a good idea because of the ammo change. Just get them some new AKs!

Americans privately own ~350million small arms. If we donated even 1% of those, the Kurds would have enough AR-15s to last them a good 5-10 years

Umm, where did you get your numbers? You think there are 300 million ARs floating around? Are you aware that a hunge chunk of those firearms are antiques, family heirlooms, revolvers and shotguns?

Factually: There are probably 2.5-3.0 million AR style rifles legally owned in the USA. 1% would mean between 25,000-30,000 rifles. Hardly enough to arm the 200,000 Peshmerga for "a good 5-10 years"

If you ever visited a rifle shoot, you'd also realize that a huge % of thes ARs have been heavily "bubba'd" by their owners so that they are no longer close to mil-spec.

no longer close to mil-spec.

To say nothing of the fact that a civilian AR15 lower receiver literally does not have enough space milled out to install the military safe/semi/burst(full) fire control group.

giving the Kurds a bunch of ARs wouldn't be a good idea because of the ammo change.

They have a bunch of M16s/M4s and even G36s from Germany (according to Wiki), so 5.56 is already a major part of their logistics tail, which, honestly, seems like a total mishmash of ordnance from across the world, and probably a nightmare to manage.

Umm, where did you get your numbers?

from: ( link )

Production of the AR-15, the most popular rifle in America, more than doubled in 2012, to over 825,000, not counting the large numbers made by Remington, Bushmaster and Sturm, Ruger. Total rifle production rose 38 percent, to three million, while shotguns rose 18 percent to 900,000.

Probably safe to estimate 1 million AR-family rifles produced in 2012 alone. 1% of that is 10,000 weapons.

from ( link )

Add everything together, make all the necessary caveats, carry the two, and we reach the conclusion that there are somewhere around 3,750,000 AR-15-type rifles in the United States today.

1% of that is ~37,000 weapons. So existing stocks + new production ~= 45,000 rifles.

from: ( link )

Some 100,000 Peshmerga fighters are on the front line against Islamic State in Iraq

So while their total strength is 200k, actual combat power is currently about half that. And we don't need to replace every single one of their weapon systems. A donation of 50,000 privately owned AR-15s would still cover about half of their frontline troops.

What's the total expected lifespan of a rifle in a combat environment? US Army deployments in Iraq were 12-15 months, so I'd assume a single weapon should be good for ~24 months of combat without depot-level maintenance. So if we donated 1% of new production, or 10,000 weapons, annually….yeah, we should be able to keep the Kurds supplied, with rifles at least, almost indefinitely.

huge % of thes ARs have been heavily "bubba'd" by their owners so that they are no longer close to mil-spec

So the Kurds can get their hands on a bunch of optics, bipods, and accessory rails. A flexibility and marksmanship improvement compared to bone-stock AKs by far.

a civilian AR15 lower receiver literally does not have enough space milled out to install the military safe/semi/burst(full) fire control group.

Burst/auto fire isn't even needed IMO. Properly trained riflemen should be using semi-auto fire to engage point targets. Burst should be used to pick up a slack in suppressing fire when a SAW or MMG goes down (barrel change, reload, casualties, etc.). That sort of controlled and disciplined fire at the squad/platoon level is rarely demonstrated. Either way, a semi-auto bubba'd-up AR-15 is an improvement over AKs that are so worn out you to tape them together to keep them from falling apart when you pull the trigger.

Burst/auto fire isn't even needed IMO. Properly trained riflemen should be using semi-auto fire to engage point targets. Burst should be used to pick up a slack in suppressing fire when a SAW or MMG goes down (barrel change, reload, casualties, etc.).

I agree totally … But IMO, most of the weapons we should be providing local "friendly" force should be AKs, PKs, etc. … If for no other reason, the availablity of compatible ammo, etc. … Of course we have to ge some of the Iraqi forces to stop dropping their weapons and running away. That would be a good start, IMO. The Kurds don't seem to have this problem.

If for no other reason, the availablity of compatible ammo, etc. … Of course we have to ge some of the Iraqi forces to stop dropping their weapons and running away.

Hell, send them the billions of $$$$ of ammo that the various domestic US Departments have purchased and have no legitimate use for. Solve two problems at once.

As for dropped weapons, well, I'm reminded of that quip in Full Metal Jacket: "Wanna buy some ARVN rifles? Never fired and only dropped once."

How many of those ARs will be chambered for 5.56mm NATO, at any rate? Throwing another cartridge into the mix, you may find the rifles chambered for a mix of 5.56mm NATO, 5.56mm Noveske Match Mod 0, .223 Remington, or .223 Wylde. Or even more. A civilian-legal AR is NOT an M-16 or M-4. Live with it. Therefore if you fire 5.56mm out of a rifle chambered for .223 it won't last nearly as long, especially not in rough conditions (no, it won't actually explode!) May also have issues with primer poppings.

"So the Kurds can get their hands on a bunch of optics, bipods, and accessory rails. A flexibility and marksmanship improvement compared to bone-stock AKs by far."

IF they are quality accessories. IF they know how to use them. IF they have been fitted and aligned properly by experts. IF they are the kind of accessories that actually do things, rather than add mass and bulk and cost money.

We've never had a problem of not having enough weapons available or the means to get them to an ally or to start a war somewhere: PDF link

I suspect the "problem" with the Kurds is that they are not their own country (under control of Iraq) and it's a touchy situation to bypass Iraqi politicians and go to the Kurds directly. Also we have the Turks who we want to cultivate to help fight ISIS. They don't want us giving weapons to the Kurds either and who can blame them. Once the Kurds get ISIS under control they will start fighting Iraq and Turkey for additional territory. That's what they've always done and will continue to do so until a political solution arrives that both sides agree to and do not break which likely will not happen in our lifetime.

There are always enough people and "contractors" to get the job done without direct CIA intervention. I had a distant German relative of mine that was the middleman for years until he got busted taking arms from Libya to the IRA.

The whole situation is very complicated and you can be sure we are not given all of the information on behind the scene situation, politics and negotiating.

Wolfhag

Here in the United States our police departments collect literal mountains of confiscated weapons every year. We should send soe of those to the Kurds.