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"Just played SoBH - newbie questions" Topic

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Ashokmarine28 Jun 2015 4:30 p.m. PST

I searched but didn't see the answers here so forgive if I missed these.

Activation – is failing a roll cumulative? Or you have to fail 2 die in one roll?
For example if I roll two dice and pass one and fail one. Does that one count towards the two failures?

Shooting – do you use the same measurement sticks? Seems a bit short?

If I am in contact with two figures and pass two activations can I engage in me lee with both separately assuming I win or tie the first one?


doc mcb28 Jun 2015 4:49 p.m. PST

Has to be two failures on the same roll.

Yes, shooting is pretty short ranged.

Hmm, don't recall that last one. If two figures are in contact you do get a + for the 2nd one, but not sure if the 2nd one can attack again. (It's been a while since I played.)

elsyrsyn28 Jun 2015 6:21 p.m. PST

Re: shooting – recall that you can shoot to multiples of your range, albeit with negative modifiers.

Re: melee with multiple opponents – a model may attack only once per activation (unless it has certain special abilities that allow more, e.g. Combat Master).


Ashokmarine28 Jun 2015 6:48 p.m. PST

Thx everyone

Black Cavalier28 Jun 2015 7:53 p.m. PST

Also remember the shooting skill is rated as Short, Medium, or Long. So the range bands for a long bow will probable be longer than for a javelin.

Also when in combat (with any number of opponents) and you have 2 successful activations, you can use one to do a Powerful Blow and get +1 to your combat roll (or something like that, it's been a while since I played SBH).

Ganesha Games Sponsoring Member of TMP06 Jul 2015 3:28 a.m. PST

Black Cavalier
actually 2 actions grant you a -1 on the opponent's C score, thus making it easier to double it (and score a kill)

Ganesha Games Sponsoring Member of TMP06 Jul 2015 3:31 a.m. PST

A longbow would be Shooter Long. You can shoot at 3 sticks, so assuming a Long stick is about 20 yards, it means that the practical distance for a direct shot is about 60 yards.

Now hitting is another matter entirely. You get -2 on the second stick and -4 on the third. But you can take the Good Shot trait (+1 to hit on ranged) and the Unerring Aim trait (halves range penalties) so with a bit of luck and an aimed shot, a bow shot may still knock down or kill at 60 yards.

Mick the Metalsmith12 Mar 2016 11:20 a.m. PST

Long range shooting is the one place where the system breaks down. Historical missile weapons outranged SoBH weapons significantly but with one caveat…aiming specifically at individual targets becomes harder or impossible at 75-100 yds.

As there is no mechanic in SoBH for shooting at group of clustered targets such as a troop of multiple advancing horsemen, something else must be created. Perhaps a quality test as well for specifically aimed-at target, or a randomization mechanic to see if any or which target might actually be hit from a clustered area of potential targets? Should we take out the minuses for long-range shooting that reflect accuracy if there is a random targeting mechanic as penetration power of the weapon remains strong from plunging fire despite lack of accuracy. How to handle a combined shot vs a group target?

I want to be able see the sky darkened with a curtain of steel pointed shafts falling amongst my enemies as they advance!

HarryHotspurEsq18 Mar 2016 4:43 a.m. PST

The Unerring Aim special rule is more or less essential if you want to have a decent shooter.

In Song of Shadows and Dust (ancient urban warfare), the range band modifiers (for shooting at double and triple range) are not as severe.

Ganesha Games Sponsoring Member of TMP29 Mar 2016 9:54 a.m. PST

the problem is that SBH uses an opposed die roll, and people in a group may have different C scores, so it is not easy to randomize a shot (or you should randomize it BEFORE actually dicing for it).

You could play that when firing at a group of 5 figures or more (possible in large games only), range modifiers are halved, and the shooter gets a +1 (as if firing at a large target) but he cannot perform an aimed shot and the target must be randomized. LoS should be measured to the closest figure in the group.

Mick the Metalsmith29 Mar 2016 5:35 p.m. PST

The specific nature of a group target at range is not that you aim at a specific rider, the target is the mass of the unit. Who get's hit is irrelevant, the arrows are not aimed at anyone in particular, but the arrows even if it was well off of a specific target, might well hit another close by.

The whole mechanic of SoBH ranged fire cannot handle unit fire at units (groups of 5+ targets). Essentially a unit is like a swarm.

Think of the archers at Agincourt firing out at 200 yards or so at the packed knights approaching. They were sure to hit something, but they sure could not specifically pick out who they were shooting at in particular. Aim doesn't enter into it, other than the most general sense. Rate of fire and strength of penetration vs armour were the only significant factors.

For Song, how I would probably handle long ranged fire against a group of 3-5 in an area is to rule out anything but armour and penetrative quality for the compared roll. Dodging, range bands and other similar traits by the defender or attacker would not matter and should be stripped out the of the resolution, but who got attacked would be subject to random targeting within the area of the attack (generally a small diameter) give each fig a chance to be hit by assigning it a specific number on a preliminary d6, if the number rolled matches a target, then roll the comparison but if no target was assigned that number rolled it is a flat miss. ie say there were 4 targets in the area then 5+ is rolled it misses entirely. the hit target then has to compare combat dice but hand to hand skill by the defender would have to be ignored much in the same way as in Tales. Hand to hand prowess simply is irrelevant. ASoBH should have done this from the start and split the C value into a ranged defense as well as a hand to hand/ranged attack value. So essentially you then have an opposed die roll that is fairly equal, unless modified by shields and armor. Strong penetrative weapons would get a plus but nothing else.

The current group shot mechanic still has the problem of dealing with high CV defenders who are high because of hand to hand skill.

Long range aimed fire against a single target should be handled normally but the single CV handling both missile defense and hand to hand remains a sticking point.

Mick the Metalsmith29 Mar 2016 5:54 p.m. PST

By the way, in Tales I already have changed missile fire ranges to having the first minus occur on the third band and not the second. I am toying with making it start on the 4th!

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