"What scales do wargamers play? Some raw answers" Topic

Hi guys,

I took the time to gather up some 500+ answers about scale preference and you can read it all on my website and bellow (in case you don't want to click the link).

Link: link

Full post:

What scale to choose for wargaming?

One of the questions that each of us has asked at one point is: what size/scale should i play? While 20 years ago the choice for certain periods (ACW, Naps, or even basic Ancients) was pre-determined by the fact that there were basically one or two miniature makers in a specific scale (the UK had the Airfix for example which was pretty much the starting step for WW2 related stuff i guess) nowadays we are spoiled. There's basically nothing that you can't have in the scale that you want to. 6mm Sci-fi? 15mm Naps? 28mm Ancients? You got it!

But having the choice gave way for the second tier of choice: human preference. When your only shot of playing American Civil War is 20mm you are pretty much set, but when you can do it in 6mm, 10mm, 15mm, 20mm, 25mm or even 28mm (and beyond, i am told), which one would you prefer?

Well, i have embarked in a long journey a few days ago, scouring some forums for this answer. I gathered up close to 530 answers to this question: what scale did you choose for wargaming? And while the answers provided statistical data, what is most interesting is the actual reason for which people chose a certain size/scale.

Before i start to dive into the subject, keep in mind that:

1. I have not visited game specific forums for this endeavor. Not much point going on a 40k forum to ask: hey guys, what scale do you play? when you know the answer is 28mm. Not much point visiting a Flames of War Forum also, when the answer is clearly 15mm.
2. Allot of the people that answered have indicated multiple scales, so the results add up to more then 530 some. It simply does not matter if they prefer one scale to the other once they have invested in multiple scales. And some respondents actually could not choose a favorite scale out of those that they owned.
3. Take the data with a grain of salt. The statistical spread is still small, even at 530 respondents. A good thousand more would be required for a somewhat good accuracy and they would have to come from multiple countries.

6mm Miniatures

A good 30.33% of people have answered that they own and play with 6mm miniatures. That's right, those tiny miniatures that some can't even see and many describe as "painted rice" (although to be fair that's the nickname for 2 and 3mm miniatures). Reasons why people collect them?

Money! Building an army with a tenth of a cost for 28mm for example is entirely possible. A vehicle is usually 20p to 1 pound. A pack of 20-30 infantry runs you up to 1 or 2 pounds. An entire force of Republican Romans (for example) with around 700 miniatures will cost no more then 30 pounds. Do i need to explain further or you still need to grasp the fact that you can build an entire army with the cost of a single Warhammer 40k vehicle?

Large battles! For those of us that like massed infantry and cavalry charges or simply wish to create a cinematic experience for the battle about to be re-enacted there's little to say other then 6mm can provide some impressive sights. Cramming 30-40 miniatures on a single 40x40mm base is entirely doable and the effect is truly one of a respectable infantry unit. Have a force composed of 20-30 units like this and you can actually have close to 1000 "soldiers" deployed on the field, making small historical battles entirely play-able.

Space! You might be blessed with a gaming area or even *gasp* room, however that is not true for most of gamers. Downsizing your battles so you can have a go during the winter months (i just hate going outside when it's cold) when you can't (or won't) visit your local club is the only option. The advantage of being able to game on a 2×3 foot coffee table is nothing to sneeze at. And when space is not a problem you can just field even more units on the table, going back to point 2.

Painting time wise, you can probably paint around 30-40 miniatures in less time then it takes to properly detail a 28mm soldier of any genre.

Where to get them? Well, there's a plethora of manufacturers but in my experience the most known are Baccus, Rapier and Irregular. I will add more to the list in the future.

10mm Miniatures

15.54% of gamers like the 10mm size. Already bigger and better detailed, the 10mm miniatures benefited from Games Workshop's (now defunct) Warmaster series, which was a gem of a game (still is) with awesomely detailed figures. American Civil War and Napoleonics are no strangers also to this size, as testified by our respondents.

Large battles! Still able to field allot of troops on the table is a major advantage for the serious gamer that wants to add some "real feel" to his Napoleonic force. Also, allot of gamers swear that compared to 6mm the 10mm miniatures have actual details and are noticeably different among them.

Some of the most known producers of 10mm miniatures are Pendraken and Old Glory Miniatures. Also, Warmaster Ebay.

15mm Miniatures

A whooping 53% of gamers own and actively play with 15mm miniatures. The scale is well represented in all eras, and even this gamer (me) owns Ancients and WW2 in this size. Lately the Flames of War crowd has driven allot of attention to this specific size in the WW2 era. DBx, FoG and other tactical wargames set in the ancient/medieval era have also traditionally been fielded in this size.

While some prefer to play skirmish games (such an inexpensive way of doing it) with 15mm miniatures the majority of gamers have opted for company/battalion sized forces. Checking out the success that Flames of War has and how epically realistic some of the tables are (this: Monte Cassino table) there is no denying that 15mm is here to stay.

There is a saying: if you build it, they will come (Field of Dreams and if you don't know this movie you should watch it asap, James Earl Jones damn it!) and this is exactly what the manufacturers have done: World War 2 is heavily represented by Plastic Soldier Company, Forged in Battle, Battlefront to name just a few, while Essex, Magister Militum, Irregular, Xyston, Vexillia, PeterPig, Khurasan and Splintered Light will take care of anything Ancient, Medieval, Fantasy, Sci-Fi or whatever else you would want. And that's just the most known (at least by me) manufacturers.

20mm Miniatures

Just 19% of gamers are actively involved in what is best known as a modelling scale (1/72). Names like Dragon, HobbyBoss, Revell, Italeri, Zvezda, Trumpeter and many others cover probably the most prolific vehicle and aircraft market for this scale. There's basically nothing you can't find in regards of World War 2 related items and Modern is following up quite nicely.

What this scale has for it is the cheapness of plastic and the overabundance of it. Infantry packs are extremely cheap and with plenty of figures. Vehicles are detailed and come in a variety of versions that would make even the most picky hobbyist admit defeat. And while your wife or wargaming agnostic friends won't probably know where to look for some 10mm Macedonians that would round up your Greek force, they will for sure know at least a store that sells model tanks and where a very polite salesperson will have this dialogue with them:

– Hello, i am looking to buy some model tanks for a friend of mine. It's his birthday and i know he loves this stuff!
– Certainly, Sir. What kind of model tanks would you like to buy?
– ?!!?!?
– What period, WW2 or Modern? Any specific country or model?
– ?!!?!?!

However a quick phone call later you will probably get something that you wanted from that model shop, be it a WW2 German airplane or a Modern M1A1 Abrams. Personally i collect 1/72 vehicles (and always make sure to have my friends know that I'm a German or Russian WW2 tanks kind of guy) and i can see how one could easily re-purpose detailed models as wargaming material.

Never forgetting about companies like Caesar, Hat or Orion that delve into Ancient/Medieval or Napoleonics, we also have to say that in general though, this scale is also known for the most abundant cheap and low quality plastic castings as well, which is what drives hordes of wargamers away. Plastic that does not allow good paint to adhere to it or that is easily bent or broken is a bad idea and a waste of money.

25mm/28mm Miniatures

52.05% of wargamers also invest in "God's scale". In the past 5 to 10 years there have been tremendous advances in this range also and one is strained to find a subject not covered toe to head by someone. Lately the plastics have made a good push on the market (and some would say that it dominates it) however metals remain favorite to a core fanbase that simply wants some actual weight behind their troops.

People prefer 28mm for skirmish or small to medium sized games and go to great lengths to accommodate big 28mm forces on larger tables. The quite standard 6×4 foot table will easily allow you to play a biggish game of Warhammer Fantasy, or Bolt Action or Hail Caesar, not to mention Warhammer 40k, Infinity, Warmachine, Kings of War and any other system that is based on exquisitely detailed miniatures. I feel there is no need to provide any links here, just to say a few names that cover most of the preferences of your average gamer: Games Workshop, Warlord Games, Perry Miniatures, Privateer Press, Mantic Games, Victrix and quite a few others that i have forgotten.

The miniatures in this scale are indeed full of detail and more then a few have also testified that it's the only size they can see well enough to paint in. Add the fact that they are big enough to be handled without fear of breaking something and you are left with only the disadvantage of space and difficulty of transportation. A shoebox that can carry both of your DBA armies in 6, 10 or 15mm can handle only 1 or 2 units maximum in your Warhammer Fantasy force and 28mm is probably the reason why we saw a steep evolution of carrying cases with different foam layers to accommodate everything a person might bring.

Who termed 25/28mm 'God's scale' then? Presumably not God … but it kind of shows objectivity lost, doesn't it? … and .. Plastic that does not allow good paint to adhere to it or that is easily bent or broken is a bad idea and a waste of money … ?

That said, the numbers look similar to the poll conducted here (200 self selecting voters) … 28mm and 15mm the more popular (15mm just slightly ahead).

TMP link

Given that GW and the like are predominantly 28mm, it kind of implies a bigger majority for 28mm in fantasy styles of game and 15mm out in front for historical wargames. Which is pretty much what you see around the place.

Phil

I suppose if you buy one 28mm figure and put it in a 6mm/15mm game it does a pretty good representation of a God.

The comments on 20mm plastics are dated, to say the least. As the owner of large amounts of 20mm plastic figures I don't have problems with paint adhering or the plastic breaking ( see this link for how I paint them: link ) .

Some manufacturers produce unattractive figures, so I don't buy them. Generally speaking the good 20mm figures ( Hat/Zvezda/Caesar/Italeri/Revell ) are well proportioned figures that look like real people, which isn't something you can say for a lot of the muscle bound 28mm output from most companies.

I'm surprised that 20mm is so much less popular than 15mm. and 28mm.

EDIT: Or I was when I assumed that the poll was WW2 specific, if it covers all eras then I'm still surprised but the other way , I thought 20mm would be less popular in that case, unless the popularity for WW2 has skewed the results.

Well in my club its 100% playing WW2 in 20mm… and no other scale.

Statistics. Blooming pointless.

yes stats can be misread, our club does 50% 20mm, the rest divided into all the rest!

Our group does 40mm only.

Well at least it confirms my impression that 10mm is still a niche scale.

Amazed at the 25/28mm stats, although I have to confess that even I own a few of those monsters.

Thanks for taking the time to collect all that data and attempt to present it in a statistical form. As noted over 1000 more pieces of data would need to be collected to give a truly accurate representation for a crowd that may not be open to hearing the result.

LOL – the last Napoleonics game we played (Albuera, last month) had about 2,000 x 28mm figures on an 18ft table – CLS game from the Age of Wargaming Dinosaurs.

I personally do 6mm for ACW and 20mm for WW2.

B

For 6mm scale you have to add GHQ to the list of major manufacturers. They are pretty dominant here in the states.

A lot of us game in multiple scales, don't we?

Besides, everyone knows that God's Scale, or The One True Scale is 54mm.

I'll just point out the obvious flaw:

None of those are "scales". They're all 'nominal' sizes – whether anyone they are 'God's size' or not I can't say but none of them are God's scale…

John T

@Yesthatsphil: it's a term not coined by me but by many 28mm historical gamers apparently :) After the 10th reference or so i felt obliged to include the term in my article.

@Trebian: I am a little biased there, indeed. Dragon/Trumpeter have good "hard" plastic (Plastic Soldier too) while Zvezda/Revell/Italeri have been a chore to paint (in my humble experience)

@Mister PiersBrand: Your work is well known to me, Sir, and i am always blown away by the quality of your paintjobs :)

@Dynaman: Gosh, i forgot about GHQ. Good catch!

For anyone that says "well, my club plays exclusively X", that might be true and it does not contradict in any way what wrote above. I self admitted it takes more then 500 answers for a good statistic and have warned to take the data "with a grain of salt". :) In my local scene we play exclusively 15mm Flames of War and 28mm Warhammer 40k/Hail Caesar so at least that falls on the statistic.

6mm … it's God's scale … And my 6mm minis don't look like rice, Cretins !!!!!

It's too easy for some to claim that when in fact it's a lack of painting/modeling skills, IMO … So neener, neerer !

6mm: Baccus, Adler, GHQ, Heroics & Ros

Basically classical 20/25mm.

WW2 some 1/300, 20mm and 15mm but they're very much a minority issue.

Also some 25/28mm pulpish.

My 6mm do look like rice, but as far as I'm aware I'm not a cretin. Might be though, the option's there.

"Zvezda/Revell/Italeri a chore to paint"?

What on earth are you doing???

I question the validity of your survey

First you based it on a personal blog "Wargames Romania" that may not be well known enough to generate replies from various parts of the wargaming world.

Second the use of term like "God's Scale" suggests personal bias

Third you have been a member since May 2013 and this is your first post on TMP

Fourth You operate a painting service and the only scales that you mention and provide prices for are 28 and 15mm

link

So it is to your advantage to support those scales The comments in both those scales such as easier to paint indeed full of detail plethora of figures etc show both bias and a lack of experience with other scales

While 6mm gets the old chestnuts of looks like grain of rice and too difficult to see In fact according to you 6mm gamers use Shoe boxes while 28mm use specific carrying cases.

The first thing that any true pollster should do is to declare any personal biases or influences they have The fact that you did not mention your painting service makes your entire post less credible

FYI I game in 28 15 and 6mm and do not have any connection to any manufacturer or painting service

@Toronto48

No offense taken, mate, however if you do a simple search by author "baycee" you will find i am posting since 24th of May 2013. Granted, i am not a frequent poster. :)

Where else should i publish a blog article then on my blog?

I already explained "God's Scale" is not a term of mine and i just learned it in the process of gathering the data.

I believe it is logical to provide prices for the areas where the expertise of the local gamers lies: namely Flames of War (15mm) and Warhammer Fantasy/40k + Hail Caesar: 28mm.

If you search my blog/site you can even find how i spent 100 pounds at the beginning of this year on Heroics and Ross to start playing Flames of War on a 2x3 table in 6mm, so….no offense taken but i did not write those things to generate any personal income.

Interesting, but you haven't indicated where you got the data from. I haven't seen any poll, so who/where/when did you poll to try to get a proper sampling?

Do-Re-Mi :) tralalala-la
Doe them all love most of the going to do 10 mm this year I've promised myself.
Cheers

"6mm: Baccus, Adler, GHQ, Heroics & Ros"

plus Irregular and CinC. Some of us might even have old Lancashire and Skytrex 6mm stuff too. Ahem.

As for all the people shooting the messenger, well 500 is a pretty big sample of wargamers and larger than most of us personally know.

For what it's worth, I always thought that true 25mm was considered 1/72nd scale on the basis of 1" equals 6'. Not true for today's 28s or oversize nominal 25s. 20mm used to be sort of a mongrel scale without out a specific settled equivalent, some where between 1/76 and the 1/87 scale HO stuff like Rocco minitanks.

For many years the local WW II miniature groups used a mix of Airfix infantry with 1/76 and 1/72 tank kits plus Rocco minitanks.

I really thing of 28mm as a separate scale from the traditional 25mm.

Chris

Another factor is that figure popularity can also vary from country to country or continent to continent.

You might consider re-doing the survey(I'm sure you have nothing better to do right) and perhaps make it a little more detailed as to location and period(i.e. ACW, Nappy, WWII, Fantasy, SF, etc.). Then go ahead and publicize it on various forums to generate a larger pool of responses.

And before everyone says why don't I do it? I'm too lazy.

Dave
WargamingMiniatures.com

25mm has been steadily losing ground to 28mm. It's been pretty much replaced over the years.

You might even argue that 28mm is being slowly replaced by 32mm by the same evolutionary process.

I don't know why people are getting so bent out of shape.

If you look at the various announcements on the different forums etc., it's pretty clear that 6mm, 15mm and 25/28mm are the most popular by a decent margin.

Legacy 25mm on too many projects I admit.

Currently:

"scale unknown" for spaceships.

3mm aircraft (aka 1/600th) WW1, Jets, WW2.

starting 3mm for Napoleonic, ACW, Cold War but stating low key right now.

6mm SF combined arms.

15/18mm for new SF, Fantasy, and VSF.

Historical 15/18mm in design stages…

Slowly ridding myself or 25+ mm where possible. Some areas (1680 -1840 Spanish North America) are still only in 25mm at this time. Lots of stuff in 25mm and 28+mm to dispose of… My goal is to be 18mm or less in the next few years.

I think one reason that 20mm isn't more popular as it is mainly done for WWII-Modern. Not a lot of 20mm when it comes to main other periods.

Seconding Legion 4's statement that there is no point thinking that 6mm figures are hard to paint or lack detail.

Piano for preference.

I just love gaming…….I don't care about the scale.
Good friends, good games, good times…..isn't that what it is really all about?

Oh GOD! What if doing the hokey pokey is really what it's all about!?

Those are beautiful Harry !!!!!!!!

Setting aside the replies from TMP's "usual suspects", curious information. Now, my question is how do you split the distinctly different 25 mm versus 28 mm and did the number in the OP also include 32 mm? And, of course, there was an oversight of both the 40 mm and 54 mm "sizes". And 2 mm and 3 mm both got left out. Let's see: 2/3 mm, 5/6 mm, 10/12 mm, 15/18 mm, 20/22 mm, 25 mm, 28 mm, 32 mm, 40/42 mm, and 54 mm. And then there are aircraft and ship scales/sizes. While choice is good, I think it has gotten a bit silly out there in the marketplace. I'm waiting for the 13.7985 and a half scale/size to come out!

All I know is I've never been disappointed in deciding to make "15 mm" my scale/size.

So, when do we get the post with the other thousand responses included?

I for one found the post very interesting, and as a person who primarily games in a scale (all right, size) not even mentioned in the original post, I will say I found nothing offensive in what he says. After all, it's true: it doesn't take a genius to figure out that 28/15mm are the two primary scales in our hobby. Of course, this doesn't make them "better" necessarily (as Coors or Miller being America's most popular beers doesn't make them more drinkable)--they are just that, more popular.

I'll raise another lonely voice for the big scales. I game in 54mm colonials these days and I can say I've never enjoyed all aspects of the hobby more, whether painting or gaming. Yes, they do raise all kinds of problems regarding table size, selection and affordability (I use metals), but the sheer tactile pleasure I derive from their "beefiness" is more than enough compensation for me. In my opinion there really is nothing quite like a 54mm game in terms of visual splendour, whether it be grittily realistic or the toy soldier style. They seem more like toys, and I suppose I like that. Is that convincing to fans of other scales? Of course not. But I would argue that the multiplicity of scales in our hobby only makes things more interesting. I'd happily play with any of them!

Finally, regarding the umbrage some take with terms like "God's Scale", it is all rather silly. I've always taken such comments as signs of enthusiasm, nothing more, and enjoy thinking about how the differing scales please other gamers. I love speaking of 54mm as The One True Scale, but certainly don't mean it literally, and I'd guess most others likewise use it in good fun.

Many thanks for the post, Baycee, it gives much food for thought.

(And Harry, those 6mm's look outstanding.)

Might you have such a high score for 28 mm because you mixed historical and other gamers? Given most non historical games are in 28 mm, it would shift the score.

It may also be genre-related. Sci-fi and WWII are popular. 28mm is represented by 40K and other games like Warmachine while the most popular WWII game is FOW.

Yeah, 6mm can be quite gorgeous if they are painted by someone other than myself :-)

Of course I am utterly outraged ;-). NOT one mention of 12MM To lump 12mm with 10mm is unthinkable in volumetric scale 12mmis 72.8% bigger! ;-), is or 24mm (Airfix on a big day) and 20mm on a small day. As for 15MM WHICH ONE, real 15mm, 18mm or sod all diffrence to 20mm which matches with 24mm plastic.

However its an interesting set of ststistics,I must admit I would have thought the 20 to 24mm range would have dominated due to the plastic models available.

…I must admit I would have thought the 20 to 24mm range would have dominated due to the plastic models available.

I touched on a similar topic myself a few days ago but no one came up with a satisfactory answer:

TMP link

Then Bill removed all my cross posts (unlike this thread) and it's only on the Scales and Sculpting boards, meaning most people won't see it.

First, thanks for your efforts and for sharing it with us. I'm sure it took a fair amount of time for this data mining project. I found the information presented to be very interesting.

Second, I can't believe some of the other responses. He never claimed it was valid, scientific, representative, or even a true survey for that matter. In fact, he advised us that the research was limited in scope and should be "taken with a grain of salt". To focus on things like using the term "God's Scale" (which is hardly a new term for 28mm miniatures and is typically uttered with tongue in cheek) or trot out the old "it's not a scale" horse is just sad. Lighten up. It's not like he's presenting this as a serious study of great importance in a scientific or medical journal. Keep these kind of responses up and nobody is going to want to post anything on TMP lest they "offend".

Craig

Sorry, Craig … I thought this was a forum and that Baycee put his text up here in full for discussion.

I'd have thought 44 responses was a good result for a post put on a forum .

I'm clearly not alone in enjoying the contribution but wincing at the reference to God having a prefered scale … a term you say is hardly new but which I have only ever seen much on TMP and (tongue placed wherever) used generally to imply it is somehow innately better than others.

No surprise that a number of 28mm types might have used it in responses on scale maybe – but it only gains its dubious currency through repetition and it doesn't surprise me that a more open-minded audience would baulk at it.

But I guess that's the kind of thing you'd expect from forum.

Good and useful data, in line with some of TMP's responses but a bit quirky on 20mm which is the only stuff that sells well enough to be universal in hobby shops right around the world.

Phil

The OP was certainly interesting and while I am a full convert these days to 6mm, I was always led to believe that God preferred 15mm…

Interesting. Nice roundup and some good commentary.f

Did you post at Dakka? I know you said you avoided "game-specific" sites, but the 28mm score seemed awfully low.

More to the point, what are the sites you gathered data from? It's hard to judge the usefulness of a poll when we can't see where the data came from.