"OMG Will they ban our toys??" Topic

This is *not* a political message about the rebel battle flag. It's a question about our minis and toys. By now everybody on the planet knows that EBay, Amazon and Walmart will no longer carry any items depicting the flag. But what is this going to mean to those of us buying and selling figures on Ebay? I own *many* Marx, TSSD and Conte 54mm flag bearer figures, and the boxes that they came in, that show the battle flag. Will they be off limits?

I can see that happening. Swastikas are against ebay's rules, but you can still find plenty of items with them if you look. You also see swastikas covered with tape or otherwise made to "disappear" from the auction photo.

Well, they want to ban squirt guns, and other toy guns, if they haven't already in some locales, so yes, they are coming for your stuff, and/or will try to ban it.

It is what they do.

I suspect at some point, military toys and models will be declared not PC enough.

Of course, they'll try to get rid of those violent videogames first.

This is going to go downhill fast.

Ebay's wording was something about Flags and flag merchandise, not everything with said flag displayed on it somewhere. Where they draw the line is the sticking point. History books are probably safe enough, along with historic pictures that have the flag as part of them but not the whole thing being the flag. Cheesy modern crap(*) with a flag symbol on it is probably out.

(*) – cheap junk sold in dollar stores for example. Or expensive junk sold at flea markets, usually on a black velvet background.

It has been called for in the past. It will be called for again.

One has to decide how much you will allow some random gaggle of scolds to push you. That will depend on a lot of variables. Is it someone at a hotel snotting off to you as s/he passes by to on the way to the breakfast bar? Some corporate media effort with lots of feigned concern and ersatz outrage? Some sanctioned prohibition effort by a government actor who can jail or kill you if you resist?

We all draw our lines in the sand at different points, if we draw lines in the sand at all. I honestly stand amazed at how servile and acquiescent the public has become to all manner of social and legal pressures.

I started a thread yesterday on this subject, specifically asking what impact people think this will eventually have on wargaming and reenacting.

I think it made it to 43 posts before getting nuked.

This is why we can't have nice things. :)

Stop spraying the woodwork.

I just checked Amazon. They are still selling books with the flag on the cover, as well as miniatures including Italeri that depict the flag on the box.

It would seem the decision only applies to actual flags for the moment.

Bob

There was a set of naval rules that showed the Bismark on the cover with its swastika recognition painted on it (actually was). The rules had to have another printing without swastika in order to be sold in Germany.

There are many arguments today that the southern Stars and Bars (i.e. a "rebel" flag) should be banned. My own feeling is that it was historical and should only be banned if it used politically. Stars and Bars at a war memorial is OK. Stars and Bars on a State flag (put on in the 1950's) should be removed. Stars and Bars sold through a retail outlet should never be banned.

At the risk of discussing the actual OP, you'll have to see once they post clear guidelines for ebay.

If in doubt, ask German ww2 wargamers what they do.
I doubt any of them really care that much though.

Very seriously I wondered how far this issue is going to go.
I've heard statues, naming being thrown around.

Guys. Thanks for your input. Especially about swastikas on EBay. I didn't realize that they were off limits. I know that Marx WW II playsets contained a litho German flag that was *not* a swastika, so I guess toy company PC goes back a bit.

14 Bore….

To answer your question….Currently there are calls by individuals with agendas and political ambitions, to remove, (or have already removed), monuments, statues, observance days, flags from sites, Renaming schools, streets, counties, etc…
I said many years ago, that "if anyone thought that they were just going to be satisfied with the flag, then they were bloody stupid fools." Seems I was right….

"I honestly stand amazed at how servile and acquiescent the public has become to all manner of social and legal pressures".

I am as well.

So do confederate regiments now have to have PC regimental flags? This is just damn silly. And how is this going to effect the living history and re-enactment scene?

Let's be very clear here it will have no effect on wargaming and reenactment, or books, or historical paintings, etc.

It WILL have effect on any objects that are owned by the state, exhibited by the state, or where the State has allowed them to flourish. Several jerks such as Ben Tillman, and possibly Calhoun, will find their namesake streets and college dorms renamed. N.B Forest will find his bust moved to a dark closet somewhere. Museums across the South will have a lot more stuff to store in the warehouse.

This is largely a long overdue rebalancing of factual history, and the death of the Lost Cause , which is largely being led by dedicated Southern Historians that are more interested in fact than racist legend.

Life will go on, and Clio will be honored.

It will also lead to a more honest conversation about our national history and culture than we've had for the last 150 years. This will be good for all Americans.

None of you and your toy soldiers will be inconvenienced. Somebody will always be ready to sell you a Confederate Flag, a joint, or a spare gun.

Ummmm, they want to remove R.E. Lee statue from Gettysburg, along with many other state and national monuments, city and street names, etc., so yes, you can bet CSA reenactors will be protested if they fly the appropriate flag.

Sorry, it will stifle conversation, since it is a polarizing issue, and sweeping stuff under the rug to pretend it doesn't/didn't exist will not help to promote more "honest conversation".

Mako,
There are lots of unfounded rumors, and outrageous statements being made at the moment, but most of the government officials being quoted about actual, true, potential actions are Republicans. In the end they will be the only people, given Southern politics, that will decide these issues.

Museum use, books, and even use by guys re enacting historical units is simply not going to be affected. I doubt that RE Lee is in any danger from being removed from Gettysburg (source?). However, certain people, such as those I mentioned are simply not worthy of anything except historical notation, certainly no monuments!

The only thing that has ever been swept under the rug is the actual history of the war, it's issues, and the truth. That will be rectified, and we can move on to being a nation with a common history.

>>Let's be very clear here it will have no effect on wargaming and reenactment, or books, or historical paintings, etc.<<

I didn't want to make this political, but since you added your two political cents, how do *you* know what will be effected? You have absolutely *no* idea.

>>None of you and your toy soldiers will be inconvenienced. Somebody will always be ready to sell you a Confederate Flag, a joint, or a spare gun.<<

Ah Jeez. Did you really have to say that? Equating drugs and illegal weapons to an archaic flag?

>>This is largely a long overdue rebalancing of factual history, and the death of the Lost Cause , which is largely being led by dedicated Southern Historians that are more interested in fact than racist legend.<<

WOW! You are *really* trying to push buttons here aren't you? I considered asking the moderator to pull your post, but…naaaah…let everyone see the kind of ideologue that this country is really up against.

>>There are lots of unfounded rumors, and outrageous statements being made at the moment<<

There are always rumors after any event that receives this much publicity. That doesn't mean that some of them won't be true. Where there's smoke, there's fire.

>>In the end they will be the only people, given Southern politics, that will decide these issues.<<

Absolutely not…no how…no way! Walmart, Amazon and EBay have already caved to the possibility of negative publicity from the press, and two flag manufacturers have declared that they will not manufacture the rebel battle flag anymore. It's going to be the press, pressure groups and politicians worried about being re-elected that will influence any further decisions. Just like they always do.

"…let everyone see the kind of ideologue that this country is really up against."

Indeed.

I don't know what "they" are going to do, but I might snatch a few of the nicer ones from ya, when you're not looking.

Pretty sure if the morons keep pushing this agenda, the SCOTUS will eventually have to weigh in and point out that you can't restrict expression on the basis of "the kids who think they are the cool kids don't like what you're saying".

-Kle.

I don't think it will have effect on wargamers, except that those who game with cheap BMC-style figs will have to buy their own replacement stickers for whatever flag they might use.

The Confederate battle flag seems to somewhat be going the way of the Swastika. Eventually it will no longer be suitable for toys, wearing in respectable public or flying at government offices. It will remain acceptable for use in specific meilus such as historical gamers, re-enactors, model makers, etc.

This from an article in the Wall Street Journal:

"EBay said it would begin today removing some merchandise from its site. "We have decided to prohibit Confederate flags and many items containing this image, because we believe it has become a contemporary symbol of divisiveness and racism," said an eBay spokeswoman".

Yet, as of this morning, you can still buy flags, earings, lapel pins, etc. at the site. I wonder if she knows what she's talking about.

My group usually uses the Hardee's Corps flag.

It will take bit of time, because of the way EBay functions, to clear listings prior to the policy. It will also take a meeting or two to specifically define the policy beyond flags. I suspect all of the organizations taking this step will be posting the exact criteria in the next week or so.

You can also be sure that some smaller, or newly created service that specializes in confederate flags, pins, earrings, etc. will start advertising that their inventory is available.

The only toy so far mentioned is the General Lee from Dukes of Hazard, but that's simply because Warner Bros. had already decided to discontinue the license. Someone else is perfectly free to pick up the rights for manufacture. This is very similar to "Song of the South" never being given DVD distribution by Disney and "Amos and Andy" being withdrawn from distribution in the 60s by CBS.
Companies are free to do this.

Hood "may" have been a brilliant div comm, but he and Bragg were BOTH mediocre Army commanders…at best!

Meanwhile, George H Thomas, the second best Union General next to Grant and a loyal Virginian, had a "camp" near the Chick-Chatt named after him during (WW1?)/WW2. A rather poor showing, if you ask me.

So yeah, there is at least ONE…if not myriads more, Northern AND United States Generals that could and should, replace Hood and Bragg.

YMMV…mine won't!

I think that ordinarybass has probably summed up the situation well.

In general daily use the swastika is not acceptable to most people – but it is accepted in a proper historical context such as re-enactments or museums. That's likely to be the way things go with this flag as well.

Wow, I am FAR from a fan of the Confederacy but how did the Stars and Bars end up there with the Swastika on the Evil Hall of Fame?

Sorry, I am honestly curious how all this came about so quickly.

Repiqueone wrote:

Museum use, books, and even use by guys re enacting historical units is simply not going to be affected.

You might want to read this:

link

In a widely circulated photo that's indicative of Dylann Roof's ideologies, he's pictured in front of the Confederate Museum in Charleston, South Carolina, one emblazoned with the Confederate flag, and the image shocked Americans. But shouldn't we be more concerned with the fact that such an establishment continues to operate? Or that it's far from the only museum of its kind?

We'll see far folks can push their agenda while they sense the opportunity.

To the naysayers:

Apple just pulled the plug on all CSA games.

Wonder how long it will be 'til eBay and Walmart pile on?

I wonder if we can still use some old political campaign paraphernalia from the 1990s?

This went downhill. Just like every discussion on every controversial topic does. Indeed, the person who started it with a statement that it wasn't political got political himself (I'm smacking your nose, Ed).

I will keep my opinions to myself; my thoughts on what will happen next are, of course, limited by my poor skills as a fortune teller.

Mako beat me to it.
link

>>Indeed, the person who started it with a statement that it wasn't political got political himself (I'm smacking your nose, Ed).<<

Welllll…you know me Howard. When somebody pushes my buttons they *will* get a reaction, and probably more than they bargained for. My wife says she can't get the "street urchin" out of me. LOL

Anyway, I still think that it's a useful thread. I hadn't realized that Apple had pulled the plug on all CSA games. This is the kind of thing that we should share with each other. Which toys have we lost, or do we stand to lose as a result of this quick turn of public sentiment.

Now, some want to do away with the US flag too.

Quite right, Mako 11.

We should ban it immediately here in the UK because it was used as a symbol by those who advocated armed insurrection against their monarch, a concept that many British people today find offensive… ;)

Now, some want to do away with the US flag too.

And some want to arm pre-schoolers.

.X% wanting or disliking something does not call for pitchforks and firebrands from the "faux" outraged.

>>And some want to arm pre-schoolers<<

That's ridiculous…and c'mon guys, let's stay away from politics.

Methinks you missed the point of my post, "The Shadow".

Hey…ya never know. I've seen some *very* weird points of view in my lifetime. Especially from people that are over doing it while trying to make a point. Sorry that I misunderstood that you were being sarcastic. :-)

Blimey -what's going to happen to all those cheap and cheerful, budget "Best of Lynyrd Skynyrd" albums.

Blimey -what's going to happen to all those cheap and cheerful, budget "Best of Lynyrd Skynyrd" albums.

Frisbee's!

Totally offensive!

link

Actually, plastic toy soldiers have pretty much disappeared from the retail scene. Except at Specialist retailers, you don't see the Airfix/ESCI/Hat sets like we did when we were kids. Walmart is down to a few "Cavemen vs Army Men" or whatever tubes ($5 each) and the one standard $3 USD carded set.

They are GONE from Dollar General.

The importers no longer carry the main sets of smaller figures; I sold over 200 bags of the crappy 8th Army Knockoffs on ebay, was told I could not get a restock this spring. (144 @ 3.95 each). Discontinued.

And of course IMEX abandoned their product, so much for Hobby Lobby as a gateway source.

Panfilov

Yep. It's too bad that today's kids have little or no interest in unpainted 54mm toy soldiers. Specialist outfits like CTS and TSSD have an astonishing array of some of the best plastic soldiers ever produced. The WW II line from Conte was, IMHO, particularly good!