"Dealing with determining cover" Topic

I hate arguing with opponents on whether a unit is in cover from terrain.

generally, I dont care. if you think its in cover, then I will take the penalty/save/whatever, but i seem to never get the same courtesy.

Anyway, what do you use to determine if a figure is behind cover or not when dealing with oddly posed miniatures or if the miniature is "up against a wall" yet the mini is in the middle of a large base?

What are your tips and or tricks?

Play on hexes :-)

It stops all of that.

Outside of that, for single bases, any part of the base is in cover then all is in cover, for multi based formations, if 50% of the formation is in cover, then it all is.

Well defined boundaries for hills, woods, swamp, etc. Doesn't look as pretty, but either the mini is in it or not. For walls, etc. Try to put yourself in the mini's position…would you be standing out in the open right there? So cover bonuses are usually a given. Of course, I'm not a stickler for exact measurements, either.

I wouldn't count the pose of the miniature for anything.

Measure to the center of the base.

If you are playing with people who don't have any common sense, you may just have to announce what you are doing. "This squad has moved up against the wall and is using it as cover."

I would advocate the "statement of intent" during your move to avoid misunderstandings. After moving state "my intent is to be in cover, or not, in general…or from this or that unit in particular. Any dispute is resolved at that time to the satisfaction of everyone…. avoiding the shenanagins of uncivil, mean-spirited players. This may not cover all circumstances, but a great many.

Remember that in many rules, a distinction is made between "cover" and "conceilment". Cover is behind something that will stop a bullet or protection against shrapnel. Conceilment just makes it harder to hit because the target is harder to see. One deals with damage, the other "to hit". In many cases, both. (Like shooting at someone in a house firing from a window.)

My rule of thumb is if half of the unit (or my opponent before combat starts declaring his intent is for the enire unit to be behind cover) remains in the open, then I am shooting at those in the open.

We tend to play what you see is what you get and often ignore the ground scale when we play. In real life, the 3 story-converted to apartments- house could easily hold an entire platoon (or more!) inside but if playing with minis, due to basing, is impossible to fit inside the structure's footprint.

Clearly, common sense should prevail within the framework of the rules and stated spacial relationships.

Hello Normsmith. This is more of the Line of Sight and seeing the model blocked by 25-50% by a terrain piece type cover. Like hiding behind a hill and the shooting unit is shooting over the slope. Or your figue is hiding behind a building corner, but when your opponent is at 45 degrees, he can plainly see you because your base pushes you out that much.

can you see 100% of the targets base from the shootings minis point of view? if not the target mini is in cover of some form. Form of cover depending on the rules. also if part of a unit is not in LOS they don't take shooting damage unless its some form of HE attack. (the whole the trooper left behind the building will die for the HMG guy stuff is just to dumb for words)

If the base touches.

That's how we determine it. If the base touches a piece of cover, then when combat comes around you can declare the figure is using that cover.

I use clearly defined areas and make sure the minis are IN those areas. Most of the time it is felt underneath, ON the felt means in the terrain, off the felt means you are not. Allowing units to move a little extra (or less in certain systems) to clearly stay within the terrain as well.

Hey haywire,
I've had problems of the sort you describe. If you can't seem to get treated fairly by your opponent(s) it's time to find some new ones…

This isnt as hard as your opponent is making it. You could break down and use a string, placing one end on the firer's head and the other on the target's head. For tanks measure from center of turret or vehicle. You both will find this gets real old real fast, as it eats into game time.

There is a very simple solution: If there's even a doubt of Line Of Sight, then there is no LOS. If he says he has LOS and you say he doesnt, then there is no firing. This works both ways. Your opponent will learn that he cant have his cake and eat it too. He'll soon learn to state his intentions and declare his field of fire.

Example: I place my figure on a corner, peeking around it. I say "I'm looking down the street to the yellow door on that apartment building". I can see everything up to that point, anything beyond is out of LOS.

As far as degrees of cover, stick with one modifier. The target doesnt get 25%, 50% or 75% cover, it just gets "cover", thats it. Whatever the modifier, there is either cover or no cover.

As a last resort, you could both agree to settle all arguments with a die roll. Decide this BEFORE the game starts.

Your last, last resort is, well, find another opponent. Some people get wargaming and some just dont. Its doubtful they ever will, because they're just too competitive to enjoy the comradery of playing games.

I was trying to convince him of using the GW ruler stick (like a string). If it crosses a piece of terrain, then I get cover.
(no it wasn't 40K, I just find those red sticks very convenient)

Get deadzone .
So how does this help with other games?
When a player starts whinging about dodgy cover all you have to do is get out a deadzone rulebook .
I do recall a game that had figure templates to show if a combatant was in cover and if not how much it could use. They had different sizes depending on the model. Was it mercs or infinity?
In rogue trader if we done a non aggressive action with the unit/figure and just moved to cover we could use a hide counter.
We do not seem to encounter many problems as we mainly play Combatzone and if you need to use cover you have to spend action points to do so.

Infinity uses the templates.

We use the OPs method. Does it look like it's in cover? If yes, it is. If not, it's not.

If it's hard to tell, then it's not.
Translate to "reality". If I can't tell if that guy is standing behind a wall, then he's probably not behind a wall.

Pre-game set up should include comments on what is and is not cover. Doing it prior to the game will ensure that the same courtesy is given to all.

A mentioned right off the bat, the use of hex or even square grids will ease the problem. Terrain will be regarded as area (covering the whole hex) or linear (covering a specific hexside) A hexside terrain might be a river or a wall. An area terrain may be a swamp, hill or rough.

Our house rule, which I've started putting in games, is that players are expected to clarify whether a figure on a corner, etc. is hiding or sticking his face out.

As far as obstacles and whatnot, we usually only award cover if you are in or directly behind the terrain feature.