"GoT We know nothing about Jon Snow" Topic

Major Book/TV series spoiler ahead.

Evidently much of the speculation about Jon Snow and how important he is to the future of Westeros is wrong. This is from Kit Harrington, thew actor who portrays the character;

"As fans flocked to social media to lament what appeared to be the death of one of their most beloved GoT characters in the shocking season five finale, Harington spoke to EW and confirmed that Snow really has bitten the dust.

"I had a sit-down with Dan and David, we did the Tony Soprano walk [letting an actor know they're being whacked]," Harington, 28, told the outlet. "They said, 'Look, you're gone, it's done.'""

It appears that everyone can forget their J+ theories because it would seem that they don't matter anymore. Unless they are going to bring in a new actor to play some sort of resurrected Jon Snow this story line is dead. And even though the series and the books have parted ways since they are to have the same ending it would certainly seem that Jon Snow isn't going to have a part in that.

Then why was it announced a week or so ago that his contract was renewed for season 6?

"They" wouldn't lie to us now, would they? I suspect we're gonna see lots more of Jon Targary…Oops I mean Jon Snow.

We have no idea what was in the contract. There could very well be a clause that you're signed "unless we decide to end your character". GoT has gone to great lengths to not let their actors know he future storylines of their characters. I considered the possibility that this story is itself disinformation but it would be pretty hard to cover up if Harrington is filming scenes for next season. So it looks like happy trails;

link

Subterfuge. They showed his uncle in the preshow recap to make you think Olly was bringing legit news on him.

The first stage of grief is denial. They can cover up a lot but once shooting started they couldn't cover up that Harrington was shooting scenes. And it means that when GRRM killed Snow at the end of the last book he really killed Snow. You can only manipulate your audience so far before they turn on you.

Jon Snow, TV news presenter on Channel 4:
link

… oh, perhaps I've got the wrong Jon Snow?

I wonder if Jon is "really dead" in Book 6?
We should know in 5 or 6 years.

WS, either way it looks like he doesn't figure in at the end, so I guess that all that Azor Ahai (or whatever the legendary hero's name is) is incorrect. And yeah, I won't be pre-paying for book 6 either.

As long as the Red Priestess and Jon's dead body are at Castle Black there is a chance he will be back. He may not be 'alive' but he'll be back.

Jon had to die to get out of the nights watch . He now coveniently meets that obligation and is free to march where and whenever he likes .

**LIKELY SPOILER**

The fact that a (despondent and likely disillusioned) Melissandre shows up just in time for the medieval blanket party CANNOT be a coincidence.

Even all the "Lovely Jon is Dead!" drama queens wailing on the interwebs should see the trap door in this one.

BTW, the "coming up in this episode" spot in this one takes the prize. "Remember Uncle Benjen? Do ya? Remember him? Psych!"

This this the first TV show I have ever watched that needs its own 'spoiler alert' warning. Oh well, whatever helps keep the goldfish from feeling stupid.

I wonder if Jon is "really dead" in Book 6?
We should know in 5 or 6 years.

Eventually, Martin will tire of sitting on the veranda, working his hand fan in a dainty, hummingbird-like rhythm, and batting his long eyelashes coquettishly at all his many gentleman callers.

Kit Harrington's run on the series is over. In a few months when they start shooting it would be almost impossible to keep his return to the series a secret. So at that point Harrington will have to admit that he lied. And now you are starting to sail in dangerous waters. You can only manipulate your audience so much.

And, to go back onto the screen for a moment let's face it, Melisandre hasn't exactly shown herself to be a top flight sorceress.

[URL=http://www.imagebam.com/image/5fbe03415766161]

Shame!
There s no evidence that Melisandre can raise the dead.
Shame!
She told another priest(who was in the Brotherhood without Banners) that he shouldnt have such power.
Shame!
just a reminder… we didnt actually see Stannis bite the big one either.
Shame!
Im going to miss seeing Miranda.
Shame!
Im glad that Varys made an appearance to assist Tyrion.
Shame!
WTG Arya!!!
Shame!
So long Mycella, you should have stayed a pre-teen.
Shame!
now what am i going to watch om Sundays?
Shame!
YMMV
Shame!
RC
Shame!

I was beginning to like the Starks.
Fool me twice, shame on you.
Fool me thrice…..
Yeah. I'll probably buy Book 6 and watch Season 6.

I'm not sure I'll be alive when book 6 is released, not sure GRRM will be either…

Unless he publishes it between now and next season of GOT I really don't know if I will read it.

People can guess all they want where the show/book is going, I could see it ending up all different kinds of ways. I just hope the ending doesn't suck. (you know, like everyone says about LOST – which I did not watch so it doesn't bother me but oh the whining I heard!)

I remember being surprised by the Red Wedding – not so that it happened (my old D&D "its a trap" radar was pinging furiously) but the extent of it. Afterward, the books moved on and on at their glacial pace until, we reach the point where Jon Snow is probably dead. What is different here is the apparent bluff, double bluff by HBO!

But what does worry me – and it's already been pointed out above, is that this is another sympathetic character gone. We had this debate in work – where the GOT fans were by and large, heartily sick of the various tortures and the nastier killings. Subverting the genre cliches is a good idea but call me old fashioned but I'd like to see good triumph.

Dynaman, you may yet be disappointed!

I'm playing a bit of Game of a Thrones Ascent on my ipad and it has been noticeable that in the strategic choices available, few outcomes are "good". The best to hope for is moral ambiguity; to me the tone of Westeros is unrelentingly harsh. Realistic perhaps but I do agree with Raymond Chandler – there must be redemption, "down these mean streets must go a man who is not mean etc"…..

Realistic perhaps but I do agree with Raymond Chandler – there must be redemption, "down these mean streets must go a man who is not mean etc"…..

Maybe Chandler was a better writer…

Ron

A good point Ron!

It did just strike me – late in the game I suppose – that while GRRM set out to subvert the cliches of the genre, in buying into the Jon Snow as Bastard With A Destiny idea, we in fact bought into one of the cliches. Thus Jon was doomed from the off – it was a matter of time. Perhaps Ned Starks promise to tell him who his mother was would have led to the revelation that she was "a serving wench called Doris, nice legs as I recall lad. 'Appen you got 'er colouring, like." Jon Snow was simply a bastard. Jowady's pic above justs cuts to the chase.

I think evaluating character deaths on GoT the SHOW is an interesting subject, because the dynamics of keeping good ratings are different than selling books. Kill off too many good looking leading men, or too many of the beautiful women willing to do nude scenes, and it would be bad for ratings. Is HBO really going to keep its GoT rating replacing Snow with Sam studying to be a maester?

Season 6 casting SPOILER alert.
They are casting someone who sounds like Randal Tarly, Sam's loving Da.
In the books he took a ship and 5 dreadful chapters. Now he is going by cart. (If he takes the Baelish Superhighway, he should be in Oldtown within a week.)
Who wants to bet he runs into Pops on the way, for an angst ridden session?

I wonder if Martin killed off Jon just to prove a point.
He's not making people want to read or watch #6

Thank you Winston, until now I'd managed to forget that whole sorry episode. And, yes, I'd imagine enthusiasm is dwindling….

He's not making people want to read or watch #6

Are you saying that nobody will now watch because a pretty boy has died or am I misinterpreting?

Well, I would not expect a mass exodus on that basis alone but I'd imagine that there may be some fans of Kit Harrington who won't bother; I know some ladies who more or less lost interest in the series at the Red Wedding.

There are many reasons why some viewers may not stick with it – as I've said, there is unease in my office over the continually darkening tone. One partner of a colleague dropped it on principle on hearing of the rape scene.

Killing off all the people you like may make one not wish to continue.

there are still lots of good characters left.

Sansa..

Arya

Tyrion

Varys

the Lannisters..

Bran

King Tommen…

and countless others…

I think Oldtown is much closer to castle Black than Kings Landing. Sam may already be there.

Not on the maps I've seen…..

Bronn for King!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One partner of a colleague dropped it on principle on hearing of the rape scene.

What, did he miss the rape scene early on in season one?

Hodor!

Not a clue, Beast. He just said his wife had drawn a line because of what she'd heard about the Sansa episode. That's just one person of course but it did make me wonder.

I vote with Bandit!

Please Winter get here soon so this whole sorry mess can end.

At this point my vote goes to the White Walkers taking over. They are set up as "evil", but aside from raising the dead and looking ominous they are practically girl scouts compared to incestuous queens, progeny-burning pretenders or blondes with scaly weapons of mass destruction …

And for those expecting some relief from book six, it's quite possible that the juicier bits won't come in until after Martin decides to make a whole sub-trilogy about a bunch of tertiary characters that have only the most tenuous of connections with the main plot lines …

You are talking about the Hedge Knight stories? I liked those more than the central books :p

Anyway I was reading it before the tv show, and I will read it after it. Just enjoying the ride/train wreck?

As life will have it, anything fresh grows stale fast :p

I read a few of the hedge knight stories too; yup, enjoyed them more too!

What is noticeable is that all of my colleagues who a declaring themselves fed up with the generally dark tone are all fans of Dexter, the Following, Spartacus, Vikings etc. so it's clearly not the blood and gore they object to.

Oh man,I am watching Hannibal. Talk about dark tone. And its not one of those "The serial killer only kills bad guys" shows. Oh no. Straight up evil, just presented in a very beautiful way. But he be evil that one. Compared to what Hannibal does (or Jonah Liebert in Monster), GoT is kinda tame :p

The Dunk and Egg stories may be optioned for movie treatemnt (here's hoping).

Most book readers (who did not spill the beans to the unsullied by the way) believe Jon will "warg" into Ghost (at least for awhile).

But this aspect of the books has not been developed in the HBO serias. Space, time and character motivations get a bit tossed around by D&D. (For instance Sam wanting to leave the Wall to become a Maester – really Jon's idea).

Winds of Winter should appear before next GOT season answering at least some questions. No telling what D&D will do but they need to improve over this (and parts of last) season.

Still Walk of Shame (straight from books) and Battle of Hardhome (making up for not having Battle on Fists of First Men) made serias worth watching. They did botch both Stannis and Dorne though.

TomT

Yes, Hardholme was good value. The mass Harpy attack was pretty damn good also – I'm sure it wasn't in the book but led from the "awkward moment" when Jorah won the fight, to a single Harpy, to a full on pitched battle in a escalation of mayhem.

Re the warging idea….since when has Ghost been all protective of Sam? Or did I miss that? So, was the dire wolf acting on his own? Also when Sam tells Olly that Jon always comes back, irony, a heavy hint or what?

Given the grim tone of the series, executing Thorne and decimation of the remnants of the Watch for mutiny would be very tempting. In fact I'd turn them all north of the Wall and start again.