"1530s French Legion Organization? " Topic

In the 1530s, French King Francis I created four legions of 6000 men each, in order to maintain solid core of infantry for his military campaigns. Does anyone have any more information about these fellas? I have been unable to find information like the ratio of pike to shot, these actual effectiveness of these troops, and their uniforms (if any).

Oman will have something, but probably not a lot. Although I think he talks about ratio of pike to shot, which I seem to remember being 2:1. Could be wrong though.

Most of my books are in boxes so I can't be too sure I'm afraid.

But certainly, there were no uniforms. And they were unlikely to ever have attained their correct numbers.

Look at David Potter's "Renaissance France at War" – go to link and search for "legions" or for p.112.

There were supposed to be seven legions of 6,000 men each, in 500-man companies. Original intent is that each company is of 150 arquebusiers, 50 halberdiers, and the remaining 300 pikemen. A manual of 1536 says that each 1,000 men would contain 603 pikemen, 80 halberds, 300 arquebuses, plus officers.

Interesting, they seem to have a lot more shot to pike than I had anticipated. Since I assumed they were trained by the Swiss, I imagined a very small amount of shot to pike, to reflect the Swiss's aggressive nature. How effective were they in battle? The Italian wars technically went into the mid 1500s, so they must have seen some service there.

I can see no indication that they were trained by the Swiss (unlike, say, the "gens du camp" of the 1480s).

I presume the "Gens Du Camp" are the same or similar to the Adventurers of the early Italian Wars?

The "gens du camp" are described by Commynes, and are intended as a standing force of mostly pikemen, Swiss-trained and intended as a replacement for the francs-archers after the latter performed badly at Guinegatte 1479. The aventuriers are more "irregular", not a standing force; I think most of them were crossbowmen in the 1494-1525 period, mostly pikemen and arquebusiers later.

The surviving documents reveal that the majority of the Gens du Camp were actually armed with halberds. In all 3000 longbows, 4000 pikes and 10.000 halberds were purchased to arm the troops.

The Aventuriers had much more varied and effective weaponry than most army lists give them credit for. Crossbows,halberds, halberds & other polearms as well as some pikes and firearms are all in evidence in the sources.
In 1515 they had sufficient close combat weaponry and ability to actually stand their ground against the Swiss for a considerable time until broken in fierce fighting.

Daniel, do you know if it would be common for the captains of the Aventuriers to buy clothing for their unit, or would the aventuriers dress in whatever they had?

An illustration of French Aventuriers in a 1522 edition of Breydenbach's Peregrinationes in Terram Sanctam

Druzhina
16th Century Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

Interesting. At what incident did the Aventuriers stand up to a Swiss assault?

No less a battle than Marignano, La Tremoille noted in his account how they "wrought marvels" in the first attacks before breaking. It is a very matter of fact statement in the letter and does not seem to be made up to salve any feelings. (The Aventuriers had such low status that most of the time writers seem to be little concerned about them doing well or ill on the battlefield)

It also fits well with the other descriptions of the resistance offered by Bourbon's division. Usually the LAndsknechts get the credit for the stand made but so far I have not found any primary source that supports that, rather they seem to enter the fray later on during the first day.

Daniel and Puster, do you have any idea if the Aventuriers would have their clothing provided by their captains or if they would dress in whatever clothes they had?

No idea but I find it highly unlikely that they were supplied with clothes due to the temporary nature of the units, their low status and the fact that central issue of clothing was rare at the time.

Thank you very much, Daniel!

Aventuriers were usually hired for "campaign" (or one aventure), so not unlike the Landsknechts who also were hired for a campaign (usually until released), and unlike the Gensdarmes and other ordonannce troops who formed some standing army.
I never found some regulations on armement for them, so its highly unlikely that they were uniformly clad or equipped. Chances are that they had to provide their own weapons and armour, just like Landsknechts, just to be considered worthy for recruitment.

Daniel, I need to check my sources on Marignano, as I seem to remember mainly those who give the credit to the some 12000 (some say 17000) Landsknechts on the field (though some sources some do not mention Landsknechts at all). It has been a couple of years since I read about it in detail, though.
IIRC the most credit is given to the Black Band, the some 5000 Landsknechts created by the Duke of Saxon in 1514 and then in service by the Duke of Geldern on loan to Francis – they would return after the battle to Gueldern. The rest are probably contingents from the army Francis had collected for the invasion of Britain a year earlier, although I have not found any confirmation for that (I find it unlikely however for some 12000 Landsknechts to dissapear on the French coast and shortly after another group of 12000 to appear in Italy without any connection between these).
It can be that the Aventuriers were thrown into the way of the Swiss to soften them up, because they were available, or because my sources are faulty and they DID deliver the brunt of the fight. I will check and will know more next time.

Thank you, Puster! (:

Well, the statement stands, though I wonder where they fought.

It seems that on the first day the Swiss advanced against the French center, hold by Bourbon with some 9000 Landsknechts and some 6000 men under Navarro (mainly Gascoins and Italians). These were pushed back behind a ditch. Guerdan (in his biography of Francis I – one of the few French works translated into German) gives a vivid description of the engagement when he tells us that the Landsknechts, after being pushed back, wavered because they feared treason. They felt that the Swiss push was directed against them only (Francis has been in consulation with the Swiss before the battle, and it seems that getting rid of armed bands by battle was not unheared of). That moment was probably the first crisis of the battle, with the Swiss reaching and turning the first cannons. At that point Francis led his Guard and the Black Band to their relieve, personally leading the Gensdarmes – though probably being taken into the flank by some 5000 fresh Landsknechts might have done more to stop the Swiss.
I fail to see where the Aventuriers could have "wrought marvels" on that first day (even the Swiss records mention only "Landsknechts blood"), unless they were included into Navarros Band who seemed to have defended the field fortifications with arquebus and crossbow before the Swiss reached them, and then harassed the Swiss from the flank while they clashed with the Landsknechts. These, however, were not routed, and asually the Aventuriers are described as a seperate block (some 4000, in units of 500…) not under the command of Novarra.

Perhaps they were on the left flank on the following day.

What makes me wonder is that many historians – Swiss, French and German – describe Marignano as an indecisive battle, not fought out to the conclusion, while many go along with La Tremoille and Guiccardinis (who probably based his estimation on La Tremoilles record) of the epic clash "of giants". I assume that both aspects have their core of truth.

BTW: Guerdan goes into pretty fine detail on the different contingents of Francis army, especially the Landsknechts, but fails to give sources. A pity. There is a new work on Marignano available in French by Didier Le Fur, but I am yet undecided wether a French work is worth it for me.