"Why do tournaments and abbreviations irritate me?" Topic

As the title states, I'm asking the question of myself and will attempt to answer it, while also asking what others think of this.

Getting back into Warhammer fantasy after having been away for quite a while, I have recently been reminded why I never got into tournament gaming and all the excellent reasons why I never got into tournament gaming.

I despise Warhammer as a tournament game. I despise it.

Reading through the rulebook a few days ago, I was also reminded, and I say this now with all the more confidence, that in my opinion Warhammer was NEVER INTENDED OR DESIGNED to be a tournament game. NEVER. Now, having said that, it obviously IS a tournament game in a huge way and has been for many many years.

Don't get me wrong. I am not bashing all tournament players. There are plenty of fine people who play Warhammer competitively. I am not going after tournament players so much as I am going after the tournament mindset and the tournament dynamic itself.

Like Bilbo Baggins in chapter 1 of the The Hobbit, the scene where he feels a shriek building up inside him like a steam whistle as he listens to the dwarves talk about the impending adventure, I have had this Warhammer-induced shriek building inside me.

I've spent some time watching numerous community videos on Youtube about all aspects of Warhammer, from building and painting, to playing in tournament and playing privately.

Let me say it this way – when I contrast the way tournament Warhammer is played vs. how it is played privately, I literally cannot stand to listen to the way tournament players break down the game. I begin to scream, I just can't take it.

For me, Warhammer is actually first and foremost a ROLEPLAYING GAME. You are roleplaying a general for all intents and purposes, and you are roleplaying the leader of a race that you are leading into battle.

When you read the Warhammer rulebook, whatever edition you happen to play, it is apparent that the essence of this game and the true strength of this game is in its mystery and spontaneity and true fantasy.

I will give you a simple example. The example of rare units. There is a reason why rare units are called RARE in the Warhammer world. Because they are RARE. Now think about what that means for a moment.

The Skaven Doom Wheel. Now, from a roleplaying perspective, something like the Doom Wheel is something that is RARELY seen on a battlefield. That means that most enemies during their lives will most likely never see one. And when one does turn up, it is so terrifying and so overwhelming that it strikes terror in the heart of their foe. RARE. Legendary, almost never seen. Monstrous. Terrifying.

NOW, take this dynamic of a rare, legendary, terrifying machine of war and bring it to the tournament level.

Every Skaven player knows that (and I'm being fiction sarcastic here), that the Doom Wheel causes "BSB 4 x 2, and blah blah breaks through stubbornness +1 and cancels out armor save, it penetrates dwarven runes, blah blah)….. and EVERY Skaven army at a tournament has a Doom Wheel. It becomes about as rare as a stick of gum. And the "doom" of the Doom Wheel is gone, as is its terror and wonder. The Doom Wheel becomes a model with a set of stats that every player knows what it does, and knows how to fight it or fight against it.

Every aspect of tournament gaming puts the number-crunching ahead of the game itself, and in many instances puts the number-crunching ahead of painting and terrain.

It is also apparent from the channels I have seen on Youtube, and tournament players suck most if not all the essence out of what Warhammer really is.

Now here's a concept that most tournament players would cross their eyes at if they heard it – how about this? You're not SUPPOSED TO KNOW or SUPPOSED TO REMEMBER EVERYTHING about your enemy ahead of time!!! You're NOT SUPPOSED to be able to have every advantage and disadvantage of your enemy mapped out every turn. That makes the game into little more than two spreadsheets with a table in between two people.

In what war do you know every stat about your enemy ahead of time, everything your enemy is bringing to a battle, and what's more, know ahead of time what rare war machines they have and every strength and weakness they have?

Think about it! Warhammer is world of magic, wonder, creatures, heroes, and unknown lands, and then a tournament tabletop makes it into "oh yeah, he's got a bunker of 40 dwarf ironbreakers, they have Strength 4 and an armor save, they can't resist dual attacks, etc. etc…. blah blah"….again, no mystery, no surprise, no spontaneity, no nothing.

If you are a tournament player, please explain to me what the appeal of tournament playing is. Please, because I truly don't get it. Tournament Warhammer seems so tedious as to not be worth it, and listening to tournament players talk about army lists and armies almost makes my ears bleed. Now, as I said, don't get me wrong – I am not saying that there aren't awesome people in tournament gaming, I'm not saying that there aren't tournament players who are fantastic painters and who care about the visuals and fantasy appeal of the game. Of course there are.

But I truly don't understand why anyone would want to play Warhammer in any way except privately with friends or a gaming club with friends.

It seems to me that tournaments are where Warhammer goes to die. Please inform me otherwise.

Sounds like you've had the Oldhammer epiphany. Check out these blog posts about what Oldhammer is and isn't.

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I'm glad I never took up drugs. I'm glad I never took up bass fishing. I'm glad I never took up golf. I'm glad I never took up smoke or drink. But I am most particularly glad I never took up anything GW.

It looks to me as though you have confused Warhammer 1st or 2nd edition with the almost unrelated 8th edition which is designed to part the maximum number of competitive players with the maximum amount of cash in the shortest possible time.

On the bright side, everything is destroyed soon and a bright new dawn will emerge with 9th Ed if the rumours are true.
Maybe

But I truly don't understand why anyone would want to play Warhammer in any way except privately with friends or a gaming club with friends.

To destroy their enemies and hear the lamentations of their women.

It's like comparing a poker game with buddies for friendly stakes and playing the high stakes game at a casino with strangers. Apples and oranges.
Some wargame for fun, some war game to win. Rules lawyers arguing over the true meaning of barkerese are no different.

I wouldn't say that JezEger. Playing poker, either with friends or at a high stakes tournament is not all that much different. If you are playing with friends who compete in a friendly manner then there is no problem. If your friends include power-cheese gamers who min-max everything then there is literally no difference between a "friendly game" and a tournament.

That all said there may be ways to limit the power of the cheesehead tourney players. Here are some suggestions:

1. Make the "rare" units more expensive or truly rare in a tourney. Figure out their probability then apply an additional cost multiplier to them. The other, and probably more practical option is to have the player roll to determine whether or not they get to keep their cheese units. If not they roll to see what other types of units could replace them points-wise.

2. Run an "Iron Man" style of tournament. Not in the old style of smash losing models to bits, but rather. have it where those models are subtracted from the TO&E of the owning player. Sure the Mega Cheese Army will win a few rounds, but as supporting units get pared down it will become harder and harder to maintain victory.

3. Randomize the army lists. Have the players roll for the troops they will lead into battle. Maybe they will get the Mega Cheese unit, or maybe they will be forced to take in a bunch of regulars. Either way it would make the player be more tactical in his or her thinking and get them out of the idea that they will "always" have big power on their sides.

These aren't perfect but they may provide a solution, or at l;east fodder for thought as to how to improve "tournamnt" play.

The purpose of a GW sanctioned tournament is to ensure that everybody has the most expensive stuff possible. If you can't figure that out then you have no business playing tournaments, let alone bitching about them.

My guess is that you can't beat Skaven with a vanilla army and you want to blame the format.

Years ago WRG Ancients players had Dogs of War tournaments. (Ironic name, hainna? But the name goes back to Shakespeare.) in these tournaments, no troops were allowed above C class, no armor heavier than H, etc. It was during a time I wasn't gaming so I never got to participate but I heard they were fun.

I'm not a tournament player but I think the fun of it is in trying to come up with an unbeatable army.

It is a mental exercise, it is not much different from chess in that sense, except a lot of the thought goes into the game prior to the start of play. Although I suppose that could be true of chess as well.