"Iraqi Forces Fled Ramadi Even Though They Outnumbered..." Topic

… The Enemy 10:1.

"Iraqi security forces fled Ramadi without putting up a fight, despite holding as much as a 10-to-1 advantage over Islamic State militants, according to two senior U.S. defense officials.

The officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they weren't authorized to discuss key details of the battle, said the primary blame in Ramadi rested with Iraqi security forces.

In the days leading up to its fall, a combination of spectacular car bomb attacks, the ambush of an Iraq army patrol and marginal weather spooked the Iraqi forces. The trigger may have been a minor sandstorm that prompted Iraqi commanders to believe that U.S. warplanes would not be able to bomb Islamic State targets.

A phone call to U.S. officials would have cleared up that misunderstanding, one of the officials said…"
Full article here
link

Amicalement
Armand

ISIS took the city with 400 men. Only 400. If you cant stop 400 men with thousands of troops, then you are either incompetent or an Arab army.

Bravery and courage under fire are not exactly virtues possessed by the Iraqi army. I think the administration realized they're unreliable months ago when the much publicized Mosul offensive was postponed indefinitely.

You are an Iraqi soldier (most likely Shia) in hostile Sunni territory fighting Sunni radicals to defend what Sunni there are who do not support ISIS. What incentive do you have to fight for those areas or those people?

Your own survival … off the top of my head !

Apparently, throwing your heavy gun on the ground (slows you down) and running back to Baghdad as fast as your feet will take you solves the survival mission quite well….

What I can't figure out is the guys who left vehicles behind. Wouldn't make you a much more efficient coward to load up the truck with other cowards and drive back?

Wouldn't make you a much more efficient coward to load up the truck with other cowards and drive back?

^This. Unless the vehicles have maintenance/fuel issues, driving away from the Big Scary Jihadis sure as Hell beats walking…

The stunning story of the fall of Ramadi

"A shocking betrayal, waves of suicide attacks, days hiding in the desert. This is a first-hand account by a top Kurdish commander in the Iraqi armed forces about what really happened – and what happens next – in Ramadi, Anbar and Iraq.

Transcript begins:

In the past year and half we engaged in major battles. At times, ISIS targeted the Iraqi Army and police with 25 car bombs, yet our forces managed to fight back and repel the attacks.

But this time there was a major betrayal by the Special Operations command. This command was formed by the Americans during [former] prime minister Nouri al-Maliki and they carried the latest advanced weapons.

Two days prior to the ISIS attack we had accurate information that the Special Operations had packed up and abandoned their base in Ramadi.

I personally relayed the information through the chain of command and contacted Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi…"
Full article here
link

Amicalement
Armand

" If you cant stop 400 men with thousands of troops, then you are either incompetent or an Arab army"

Why does that remind me of the line in 'Zulu' from Adendorff to Bromhead:

"What the hell do you mean, "cowardly blacks"? …. And who the hell do you think is coming to wipe out your little command? The Grenadier Guards?"

Aren't the members of Isis 'Arabs'? And arguably they're an army.

The US Sec of Def, was saying on CNN, the they Iraqis don't have the will to fight even when they out numbered Daesh 10-1. You can't train someone to be motivated … This is the Iraqi's fight and their backyard, frontyard, etc. … An Iranian Gen said the US has no will to fight Daesh. And the Iranians are the only ones willing to take the fight to Deash … Well … I guess it's all about perceptions. Regardless … IMO … the Iraqis just don't have what it takes.

Maybe because, for many Iraqis, living under Caliphate rule isn't so much worse than under Saddam or the current Government, that it's worth dying for?

Good question.

Amicalement
Armand

Like in virtually every other war it comes down to who wants it more. Superior numbers or weapons rarely(not never) trump that.

they will have to stand sometime, because a time will come their is no place to run, I figure baghdad is where alot of the soldiers are from , so their families are there so they will probably stand

It mostly has to do with ideals, beliefs and fanaticism. ISIS is more motivated because they believe in their twisted cause and their caliphate. OTOH Iraqis are fighting for, what, to maintain the status quo? ISIS is willing to martyr themselves and they have the advantage in willpower and conviction that maybe even Iran lacks.

ISIS are actually being driven out of Anbar by the Iraqis, as reported by the BBC.

But it's a long, slow grind and so doesn't get reported much.

They said that a year ago, too.

It appears they are able to move pretty much where they want, when they want.

Clearly, if they care so little for their own territory, there's nothing we'll be able to do to assist them, so it is time to pull out, completely.

I guess the Iraqis are playing whack-a-mole to some extent, but the fact remains they're taking ground in Anbar.

And they did take Tikrit…

But whenever they take one town, ISIS seems to move to another.

But it's not like Baghdad has fallen – a smany assumed it would.

People might find this analysis interesting.

link

The fall of the Syrian Army allow them to transport more troops against the Iraquis.

Amicalement
Armand

Time to encourage the Russians to help the Syrians?

The Russians help only themselves.

Oh hey, the 642nd topic on the same issue.