"The Invation of Mexico via Rio Grande?" Topic

Reading this Grant Orders to Philip Sheridan to moving to the West…

"…"You may notify the rebel commander west of the Mississippi—holding intercourse with him in person, or through such officers of the rank of major-general as you may select—that he will be allowed to surrender all his forces on the same terms as were accorded to Lee and Johnston. If he accedes, proceed to garrison the Red River as high up as Shreveport, the seaboard at Galveston, Malagorda Bay, Corpus Christi, and mouth of the Rio Grande.

"Place a strong force on the Rio Grande, holding it at least to a point opposite Camargo, and above that if supplies can be procured.

"In case of an active campaign (a hostile one) I think a heavy force should be put on the Rio Grande as a first preliminary. Troops for this might be started at once. The Twenty-Fifth Corps is now available, and to it should be added a force of white troops, say those now under Major-General Steele.

"To be clear on this last point, I think the Rio Grande should be strongly held, whether the forces in Texas surrender or not, and that no time should be lost in getting troops there. If war is to be made, they will be in the right place; if Kirby Smith surrenders, they will be on the line which is to be strongly garrisoned…"

…At this same interview he informed me that there was an additional motive in sending me to the new command, a motive not explained by the instructions themselves, and went on to say that, as a matter of fact, he looked upon the invasion of Mexico by Maximilian as a part of the rebellion itself, because of the encouragement that invasion had received from the Confederacy, and that our success in putting down secession would never be complete till the French and Austrian invaders were compelled to quit the territory of our sister republic…"
From here
link

What if… the invation took place?

Have the French enought troops to sustain an US advance to Mexico City?.

And if they succeded… they would remain or called for mexican elections?

Amicalement
Armand

Why invade? Just arm and supply the Mexican Republican Army.
The French and Austrians were tired of this "Mexican adventure" it had drained too much money and manpower. A war with the Union would only mean to spend even more money and manpower.
President Juarez was an ardent republican and in very friendly terms with the United States goverment, so I think there would be any need nor to send an occupation force to Mexico nor to call for elections.
For the sake of "what if" I think the French had no means to stop a formal invading army, if the US invaded they could easily reach Mexico City before any French or Austrian troops could reinforce the imperial army. Once in Mexico city they would install Presiden Juarez in power and then leave to tend to the problem of keeping the recently defeated confederacy in peace..

Why invade?… well, what about to have a bigger country! (smile)

I think that the french units would sustain hard combats. They were all veterans and well armed.

The question is how easy the US Army can reach Mexico City.

Amicalement
Armand

Why invade?… well, what about to have a bigger country! (smile)

I think that the french units would sustain hard combats. They were all veterans and well armed.

The question is how easy the US Army can reach Mexico City.

Because the US had no ambitions in Mexico and was on good terms with the legitimate Republican government of Mexico. Because a US Army of occupation would be as welcomed as the French and be violently opposed by the Republican forces. Because it would represent a massive reversal of long standing US policy (the Monroe Doctrine). Because it would be violently opposed by popular opinion in the US.

Sure, the US Army of 1865 could march all the way to Tierra del Fuego if it wanted to. But to what end?

As it stood, by 1865 the Republicans under Juarez were doing a more than adequate job of driving out the French. The best option for the US was to provide whatever diplomatic and material support (which it did) with the threat of outright military support for Juarez if France didn't abandon its ill conceived intervention. From 1859 on the US was openly sympathetic to the Mexican government which only grew in strength and volume (even while the ACW raged on).

Grant, as US President, was relatively unexpansionist (not a high bar) – his views on the Dominican Republic are fairly unique in that regard, and were collaborative rather than invasive.

He also was a stern critic of Democratic expansionism and its links to the Mexican War, which he roundly criticized (as a good Whig).

America annexing Mexico might have the effect of eventually giving the vote to millions of non-white Latino Catholics, something no American president would seriously consider.

America annexing Mexico might have the effect of eventually giving the vote to millions of non-white Latino Catholics, something no American president would seriously consider.

I sincerely doubt that would have been even a remote consideration in 1866…

Grant wouldn't be President until 1869. But why invade Mexico? The US had just emerged from 4 years of an incredibly bloody war, why seek another?

Yes, the only 'invade Mexico' scenario that makes sense would if the Mexican Republican government suffered a serious reversal and the Imperialists were gaining the upper hand.

-Will

As I recall, the forces eventually sent to Texas were the 25th and 4th Corps and two Divisions of Cavalry. I believe they were Custer's Division and Merritt's Division. They were there to appear to be "threatening" to the French, but not anything more than that. A what if would have had to put them in touch with, if not actively working with, the Mexican Government and their troops. There was never a threat to Mexican sovereignty.

Yeah, the what-if is even more unlikely than British troops intervening – but the "how" would be as follows:

1) serious defeat of Juarista forces
2) large-scale and active harbouring of Confederate troops, especially senior commanders, as organized units
3) Mexico looking aggressive along its southern border

In that very sketchy what-if situation, Sheridan leading Steele, Thomas, Custer, and Merritt against French Foreign Legion, Mexican lancers, Confederate renegades, and Austrian bodyguards is plausible, and would obviously make for a very fun scenario.

Well, if we're going to entertain some far-fetched "what ifs"…

Imagine what would happen when the US Navy decides to shut down the Imperialist/French supply ports of Veracruz and Tampico. And forget about the British helping out the French; they dropped out of this little adventure way earlier and told the French "We're outta here…".

One of the guys in my wargaming group is fooling around with a scenario of US & Mexicans vs French and Confederates. The hold up is none of us is painting the Mexicans and he is a glacial painter.