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"Armor color Sengoku Jidai" Topic


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4,368 hits since 17 May 2015
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Cragglow17 May 2015 11:31 a.m. PST

Hi guys, I bought a bunch of 6mm Samurai and Ashigaru from Baccus, and they are really nice if anyone hasnt got any. But I was wondering about armor colors on the ashi as well as samurai. If there are any good books or websites for this kind of thing. Everything I've seen in museums and such are very dark on the armor and have color on the clothing underneath, but I see most minis are painted with color all over, is this really the color scheme or is this for effect? Thanks in advance guys!

clibinarium17 May 2015 11:49 a.m. PST

People paint samurai all sorts of colours, but likely most suits of armour were black, brown or sometimes red. Various colours could be used in the stitching, particularly in the the older style of o-yoroi laced armour . Clothes underneath could be quite colourful and patterned, but avoid colours that are unrealistically bright.

Dr Mathias Fezian17 May 2015 12:14 p.m. PST

clibinarium sums it up pretty well. The Ii clan are about the only ones noted as having a 'uniform' color throughout a contingent, although some other daimyo had select units that were 'uniformed' or had something that tied them together like a common sashimono or golden helmet or something.

Sashimono were typically one of the 'five lucky colors'- red, yellow, blue, black and white although there's always exceptions somewhere.

Cragglow17 May 2015 1:14 p.m. PST

Okay, thats what I was thinking, thanks guys!! Would the ashigaru be the same? And would the clothes underneath the armor or exposed at the legs be a uniform color? Depending on the clan perhaps?

Cragglow17 May 2015 1:16 p.m. PST

What I noticed most in the museum suits were various colors on the armor that would cover the thighs, having a woven pattern as well, is this in most armors or maybe just various fighters?

Cragglow17 May 2015 1:25 p.m. PST

Oh sorry, thats what the yoroi was lol XD
thanks guys!

Sundance17 May 2015 5:41 p.m. PST

As those above noted, the armor itself is made up of plates of iron, typically black or brown – Ii were the only family I know of that used colored armor, which was red in their case (the metal was lacquered) – which are sewn together with colorful silk cord. Sometimes the plates were connected by a type of chain mail, which was sewn to a backing cloth, sometimes, just the plates themselves. Silk was typically worn underneath the armor as silk is naturally resistant to arrows (not saying it can't be pierced, just that under some conditions, it could be resistant to them). Ashigaru armor was simpler, not usually laced with colorful cord, and the clothing they wore underneath it was typically of coarser cloth. Both samurai and ashigaru armor varied in construction methods and styles over time, and of course, by the wealth of those purchasing it.

It's not that the colors were 'lucky', they are associated with the five elements in Asian metaphysics (air, water, fire, earth and void – not necessarily in any particular order).

setsuko18 May 2015 3:05 a.m. PST

The good thing is that the "rules" for army painting when it comes to sengoku period armies should be seen as more of a general guideline. It's not like Napoleonic armies, and you can find examples of all kinds of ways that armies looked, from those who were almost uniform and well structured towards the end of the period, to some forces that were little more than a bunch of haphazardly equipped troops with very little in common.

Here are the general "rules" as I interpret them after reading a bunch of books (some better than others):

1) Armour were laquered, with black being by far the most common colour. On second place you will find rust-brown, and then red. Far lower than these you will find unusual laquer like blue, gold and green, which were unlikely to be worn by rank-and-file.

2) Dresses were usually not uniform, with samurai typically wearing more expensive and colourful dresses, and ashigaru and peasants wearing everything from barely a loincloth to dresses with more dull colours like brown, grey and buff.

3) Uniforms were rare, and most troops were responsible for getting their own gear, or had them provided by their direct feudal lord. So even if a lord dressed his 25 guys equally, his neighbour would not dress his guys exactly the same. Generally, places with more resources had more opportunities for mass-equipping troops, and you would see more uniformity in equipment and heraldry the later you get in the period.

Units wearing predominately red, for example, are usually from the latter part of the period, when power had started to get centralized around a few leaders. But even the famously "all red" army of Ii, were likely not able to equip their entire army with uniforms, and it was more likely that they could muster front ranks wearing mostly red.

4) Heraldry, in the form of different types of banners, were the main way to identify military formations on the field. Not dresses or armour.

For me, especially at 6mm, these "rules" means that I tend to take some artistic license. If you paint an army with mostly black armour and just random colours for the sleeves and pants, it won't look all that inspiring on the battlefield. Especially not if you have two opposing armies looking more or less similar. So I tend to use coloured armour far more than is realistic, and also semi-uniform dresses.

For example, when I paint my two Takeda contingents, I decided to go with red armour on one, and green on the other. Very unhistorical, but it looks great. For both the red and green armoured ones I paint most of the dresses blue, white or yellow. Also unhistorical, but this means that I get some kind of cohesion between the contingents by using the same palette for the secondary colours.

Most importantly, this means that I get the whole Takeda army to look very different from the opposing army, which has all black armour, with Tokugawa forces wearing mostly blue dresses, and Hosokawa wearing mostly red dresses. Finally, the banners ties the different contingents together.


(Example of varying Takeda banners tieing together the army with uniform colours, despite armour being different. From left: Takeda, Takeda, Hosokawa, Tokugawa, Takeda, Takeda, Takeda)

So, basically I disregard "rule" 2, no uniform dresses, to make the armies look more interesting in 6mm. I find that the scale demands that you paint with strong colours and bold colour schemes, or the minis will just blend into each other. So I might be even more ahistorical in this scale, simple because painting 6mm is a different beast than painting 15mm or 28mm.

As I see it, you can decide to go for representing a historical look as close as you can, or use some artistic license. Personally I use periods with more rigid uniformity (Napoleonics and WW2) to get that aspect of the hobby, and I use less rigid periods (Sengoku Japan, Medieval Europe) to make more "fanciful" armies. As long as you are honest about which way you go, do what suits your passion, and paint according to the end result that you have in mind.


Edit: just because I can't shut up:

When painting Baccus 6mm samurai, I find that I have a limited number of areas to use to convey a colour scheme. These are
1) The armour
2) The pants and sleeves
3) The belt and sun cover on the jingasa helmets of ashigaru
4) The banners

The scale is simply too small and the number of soldiers too large for the lacing on the armour to be a) possible to paint without investing too much time, and b) visible on the finished rank-and-file troops. I do paint them on generals and stuff though.

So, for a 6mm army, I find that if you keep two or three of these areas similar for an entire contingent, you can vary the others and still keep them looking uniform, without looking identical. You will typically want to paint at least one of them in a striking colour, and another one in a contrasting colour that makes the striking colour more visible.

What does this mean? For example, I find that painting the belts and sun cover on the helmets white is a great way to make a dark coloured armour visible. Combine it with a bright colour on the sleeves and pants, and the whole miniature becomes visible, despite them being small. If I went with a dark blue belt, the whole torso and upper legs would risk looking like a blur. With a red armour, you could go with a very light blue or yellow belt, and still get this contrast.

This also affects my choice of colour on banners and sleeves/pants. For example, in the picture you can see that the Hosokawa has a bright yellow banner, black armour, and red pants/sleeves. I find that the two bold colours make a good match, and the black and white areas inbetween them (armour and belt) helps to keep them from "bleeding" into each other.

So, if you are unsure of where to begin with painting 6mm samurai, you could always make a general plan of attack based on these areas. Decide which ones you want uniform and which ones you want to vary (depending on how historical you want to be), and think about if you can put more neutral colours (like black or white) in between the more striking colours.

(Funnily enough, you can basically look at the colour rules for European heraldry for help if you want to avoid bad colour matches! link

Cragglow18 May 2015 10:31 p.m. PST

Okay, this has all been super helpful and Setsuko, your samurai look awesome! I'm thinking I'm gonna go with bit more color this way. But I'll have to paint a couple of stands to really get a feel for it. I like to keep it real-ish but 6mm might be easier to and a bit more festive to show more color and there is no denying that 6mm colorful samurai look imposing! Thanks for the help everyone this has given me some pretty good insight.

sumerandakkad20 May 2015 8:25 a.m. PST

You can see Setsuko's work in the article in Wargames, Soldiers and Strategy issue 67. A very good body of work for Samurai. I got it especially for the Ronin interview and related articles on Samurai. Still painting the figures and will look at the buildings when the basic units are complete.
Check out Mura Miniatures for some very good Japanese buildings.
WSS also has a vlog on youtube.

HistoryPhD20 May 2015 2:33 p.m. PST

I recently ordered from Mura Miniatures and what I received is of outstanding quality

Lion in the Stars22 May 2015 7:17 p.m. PST

The Date clan is the other group that had largely uniform armor. All their Ashigaru were issued blue-black armor.

But I was wondering about armor colors on the ashi as well as samurai. If there are any good books or websites for this kind of thing.

For gaming, Killer Katanas 2 is a wonderful resource even if you use someone else's rules. There's information on weapons proportions, whole lists of senior samurai names, orders of battle for the scenario games.

EValerio has a wonderful thread showing army composition based on the Takeda screen-paintings here on TMP: TMP link

for painting guides, the various Osprey books are OK.

The Last Conformist24 May 2015 10:57 a.m. PST

avoid colours that are unrealistically bright
For 6mm, I'd say do use unrealistically bright colours, otherwise people will hardly notice them on the table.

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