"Battle of the Standard" Topic

The Battle of the Standard was fought between the Anglo Normans and the Scots on Northallerton Moor in 1138.

The Anglo Normans consisted knights, mercenaries including archers, town militia and the local fyrd.

The Scots had knights, spearmen, Islemen, Galwegians and English. The English were the English speaking subjects of the King of Scots. Many of them would second generation exiles from the Norman Conquest.

We have little in terms of primary sources for the battle.

My question is how would those English be equipped and represented on the wargames table?

My impression from reading about the battle was that the loyal English drew up in a large block, with the first few ranks being archers and dismounted men at arms, and the rest were poorly armed militia. I do not know about the Scottish English, maybe they were the knights that joined David's army?

No the Scottish kights were like the English knights 'Normans'.

The English had been kicking around Lothian since the glory days of Northumbria and I think those lads would be in among the Scottish spears. There was an influx of better off English exiles post conquest and post the Harrying of the North and its them I'm interested in. They might have fought on foot with armour and axes just as the Islemen did.

I've always assumed that the less easily placated followers of Wm the Conqueror left England to settle in S. Scotland. It was their descendants who formed the cavalry of David's army, led by the prince, right through the Anglo-Norman lines into the rear of their phalanx, where they made a jab at the wagon standard and its guard, then surreptitiously returned through the A-N "lines" to rejoin their defeated army. They looked enough like the A-N cavalry that they could pass as one of them and escaped detection….

They looked exactly the same as them because they were the A-N pals of the prince who had followed him to north to Scotland. His household if you like. David had some too including some English based lads.

I'm also wondering how English the Fyrd were given what we are told of the Harrying of the North.

The Harrying of the North moved people far more than it killed them off. The fyrd remained English and I don't think that any significant portion of it was ever "Norman". The fiefs that Wm the Conqueror gave away to his followers went to knights and professional soldiers, not peasants to replace the English levy….

I've always assumed that the less easily placated followers of Wm the Conqueror left England to settle in S. Scotland.

I don't think there is any evidence of such a mass migration?

No there is not. The Normans in Scotland arrived by invite of a centralising Scottish king who intended to establish a Frankish style regime.

I would be interested in the evidence that the Harrying of the North moved people rather than killed them off. The accounts I have read emphasise killing of everything living, destruction of crops and famine.

My question is how would those English be equipped and represented on the wargames table?

With the exclusion of huscarls, I think that there is little to indicate that the bulk of the English foot looked much different than that which formed up under King Harold, i.e. even in 1066, dismounted AN knights and serjeants looking pretty much like thanes, less perhaps shield decoration and other local fashions now lost to us.

Despite the Harrying, the continuation of Anglo-Dane names in charters and linguistic continuity suggest a continuation of an 'English' strata below the AN elite.

Yes the linguistic continuity is conclusive.

I suppose what I'm reaching for is the impact of the Harrying of the North upon the numbers and composition of the local levy.

Also would you think a unit of 1066 Anglo Danes would look out of place in David's host?

I think that the Lowlanders would look quite similar to the Northumbrians, the Danish axe remained popular in Scotland, and you have the Norse of the Western Isles etc, but they'd be distinct of course – anyway, yes.

Good enough a bit more diversity then and the last unit I need to paint.

The thing I've always liked about the 11th and 12th century is that mail, shields and helmets are practically interchangeable from beginning to end of that two century span. "The age of mail" as it were. Helmets only start to get face plates and flat tops toward the end of the 12th century and are never ubiquitous. Nasal helms and long shields are there even if the shields are mostly flat topped by the end of it….