"What rules was I basing this army for?" Topic

In 1986, I purchased enough of the then new 10mm figures to make a Union and Confederate force.

I've just got the Confederates out of their box for the first time this century and I can't for the life of me remember which rules I based them for.

The infantry are on stands of 3, 4 or 5 figures. Can anyone suggest which rules they may be for, bearing in mind that this was in 1986?

Doug

You, sir, are a true gamer and a credit to your breed. I have no idea what rules you were contemplating.

Johnny Reb. Just my thoughts since the number of figures ment something. Been too long since I played them.

Matthew

Johnny Reb is what you based them for.

Are they single ranks, in a narrow rectangular strip? Otherwise it appears to be Johnny Reb.

Johnny Reb for sure

Wow – say what you like about TMP, there are some things t can't be beaten on. What a response in such short time! I believe I DID have Johnny Reb (never played them, though).

Here's a supplementary. How have they stood the test of time compared to more recent sets of rules – worth looking round for a set?

Doug

You could, not bad rules (the GDW edition). You could also use them for Fire and Fury without too much angst

If you want to use Johnny Reb, you definitely ought to get JRII. JRIII was a step back, as far as I was concerned.

JRII has a lot of look up charts from what I recall. It took a while to get the hang of them.

Fire and Fury are okay. You could use them with black powder as well.

Matthew

JRII is far superior to JRIII IMO. The GDW edition is still available on e bay and I bet Noble Knight games has several copies as well. Still my go to set of ACW rules.

Another vote for Johnny Reb.
I could never get my head around how you had to model each regiment to its strength on May 23, 1862. Then they wanted you to….

I wanted to go full generic.
And then I sold them before it became an issue and I had to argue with anyone about it.

You could use them for any number of rules as mentioned above.

I would also add They Couldn't Hit An Elephant from TooFatlardies as well as they have similar basing to Johnny Reb and Fire n Fury.

David

You have to go with some smaller scale battles, or pieces of bigger ones to get the most out of JRII (the blue box GDW edition) I prefer JRIII (3) for the grand tactical aspect and the quicker game time.

Was there a JR1? I only see mention of JR2 & 3 here.

Doug

I could never get my head around how you had to model each regiment to its strength on May 23, 1862. Then they wanted you to….

What? Why?

-Will

How many stands in a regiment? Johnny Reb I and II were five stands to a regiment and III is four stands to a regiment. 86 was probably the day of Johnny Reb I.

They could have been Stars 'N Bars. Since each figure stood for a certain number of soldiers you could have anywhere from three to five figures per base. Strangely, that meant two units with the same number of soldiers could cover widely different frontages.

And that was, by no means, the extent of the problems with the rules.

I'm pretty sure the set I had were in a box and printed landscape rather than portrait. Does that narrow them down as regards which version? And if they were JR1,would that make them much different to what followed?

I'm going to have a Class One rummage through all those anonymous boxes that haven't been unpacked after the last 3 house-moves – my set may be there somewhere.

Doug

There was definitely a JRI. I don't believe JRII was ever printed in landscape.

These aren't the rules you're looking for.

Just done a Google search and images of 1, 2 and 3 are conclusive – I had JR1.

Can't find anything yet in the way of reviews. Plenty of stuff on 2&3 but not 1.

These aren't the rules you're looking for.

Can you elaborate? Do you mean the rules I had were not JR or do you mean you don't recommend them?

Oh, and another question. Where did I put the Union army? Can't find it anyhwere.

Doug

It's in the attic. Way in the back, behind those old coffee tables.

It's in the attic. Way in the back, behind those old coffee tables.

Now that's tricky – I haven't got an attic so who's attic are they in? And why?

Doug

Hmmmm, then that must be where my Union army is!

Maybe you've got mine…?

Doug

I could never get my head around how you had to model each regiment to its strength on May 23, 1862. Then they wanted you to….
What? Why?

-Will

Slight exaggeration.
Each regiment had give stands but to model the strength of the regiment it had different number of figures on each stand. You could have 5x2, 5x3, 5 x4 etc. It made things difficult.

I have JR1 and JR2, biggest differnece was some editting to clarify some rules. JR2 also had a scenario book published. JR1 had some Campaign rules.

JRII was unofficially "tweaked" to smooth out a few inconsistencies. You can find that version on the web by googling "Johnny Reb 2.5"

You could also try Dave Brown's Guns at Gettysburg rules which give a good game and use the same basing.

Hi Doug,

You definitely have JR I. I wrote an article for Charge! Magazine a few years ago that discussed how to convert Johnny Reb I, II & III rule set scenarios into Regimental Fire & Fury scenarios. I give a little background for each rule set then dig into the conversion process. Each of the JR rule sets have differences and all of the differences are addressed in the article.

It may be that you will find the RF&F rules set interesting. Since you are "starting over", I'd recommend that you give RF&F a look. It was published in 2010 after 8 years of play testing and 78 versions of the Quick Reference Sheet! They are a tight and elegant set of rules and you owe it to yourself to check them out.

My article is on the Fire & Fury website at:

PDF link

Best, Lowell D. Hamilton

In JR1 the artillery was too strong. Corrected in JR2. I have used both JR2 and JR3 for many years. I have since switched to "Mr. Lincoln's War" and been happy with it.

The basing in JR is what drove me away. We decided to use one base size with four figures to a base and just vary the number of bases. When I moved to another town the JR players there balked at that.

I was hoping JR3 would solve the problem, but nope. John loved his bizarre basing system. On top of that everything I liked about JR2 he changed.

I have never played RF&F. Bought the rules naively hoping it would be different from F&F. But nope it is still F&F. The units in those rules are huge.

Thanks for the recent input. I'll check out your article, Lowell – thanks.

Whatever rules I use, they'll have to be using the bases the figures are on because those early 10mm (made by a company called "10 High" – long since gone, I fear) are so fragile that any attempts to rebase would be tragic. So, it'll have to be on "John's bizarre basing" that they go into action.

Doug

I actually like the bizarre basing system. It allows you quite a lot of flexibility for unit sizes and cuts down the need for casualty markers

Doug: The way you describe the mounting and the year, (1986), make me think, as John the Greater stated above, you are refering to Stars N Bars. I have played these rules since 1986 and enjoy them as much today as I did then.

John Miller