"Why little interest in Korean War?" Topic

I have wondered about this for some time. Why is there so little interest in gaming the Korean War? You have numerous countries involved US, Br, Fr, Greek, Koreans, Chinese. Battles ranged from skirmish to big human wave assaults for hills. Plus you can use armour. Vietnam is popular, WWI has a lot of fans, even different regions and years of the war, and the same is true for WWII. I don't get it. The information is easy to obtain with many books ect. Why so little interest in this war?

Because no one clearly won or lost? At least no one did in the traditional sense, unlike the wars just before it and just after it.

I am TOTALLY interested,.

I am just the only one in my area, so *IF* I were to go in, I'd have to go solo.

There are plenty of figures out there now, particularly in 10mm. Pithead makes just about everything one needs for the ground war, including troops in winter gear. I use Check Your 6 and Raiden planes for aerial gaming. Find out more on my blog:

gamingkorea.blogspot.com

I think most people see it as American, South Korean, or Australian troops fighting off human waves of North Koreans and Chinese. Is that experience really different from fighting off human waves of Japanese? Do I really want to invest in a whole new set of armies that are going to deliver the same experience I already get?

It seems so bland. It almost seems like the conflict itself was in black and white. For the parts that are like WWII, WWII seems more colorful and interesting. For the parts that are like Vietnam, Vietnam seems more colorful and interesting. Just can't find a compelling reason to pursue it.

HI

Also There isn't vast number of books published on it like we see for WW2 and veitnam. I have a Large 15mm force for both US,Brits, NK, CPA and uses a modified version of FOw.

I would like some nice 28mm figures for doing the many trench fights on Porkchop hill.

ArmymenRGreat is on the right pulse: the public perceives it as a sideshow with only a few bits of drama (Chosin Reservoir, counterinvasion by massive PRC forces, Pusan perimeter, Inchon, MacArthur getting sacked) to bear much attention. Also, as a conflict it just petered out, with a (so-far permanent) truce as its "conclusion", and a series of tragicomic hereditary buffoon leaders for NK.
Indeed, it is worth looking into, and has quite a bit under the surface that's worth looking at.

The human wave thing isn't really the right way of looking at it.
Chinese tactics were significantly different from WW2 Japanese f.x.

I'd love to game it but it needs more focus in 15mm.

Could it be, for wargamers, that there hasn't been a great movie made about the war that has caught the attention of gamers? Like Zulu for the Zulu Wars ect. The only one I can think of is Porkchop Hill but that is some 50 years old. Do gamers need something from more recent films or fiction to get into a new war? Although, it could be, as was stated, that it just falls too close to WWII and Vietnam.

Because I have enough to do, and no one else is willing to paint up all the figures and vehicles we will need to have some games.

I've gamed it before and will do so again. There are a lot of interesting battles to choose from. Want to play it more? Then play it!

'The human wave thing isn't really the right way of looking at it.
Chinese tactics were significantly different from WW2 Japanese f.x.'

Perhaps not, but if people tink that…

Although there are cool tanks, they serve more as mobile artillery (kind of like Vietnam) than as tank and there are no great tank battles.

Besides most of all the UN Troops look like Americans, so you don't get units that have a certain nationalistic look to them.

^^^ It's WWII with Koreans. Compared to other American wars, there is little in print or film to stir the imagination.

It is just to similar to WW2 for me, and in fact on the odd occasion I've gamed it, I've just used my WW2 Brits and Russians.

Mainly due to it being looked at as a mostly static affair, fought with WWII equipment on the ground for the most part. In the air there are plenty of games that cover the period (as already mentioned). Sad really since there was a large amphibious op, massive swings of fortune in the first year, and even the "static" portion of the war had a lot of interesting battles that could be played out on the table top.

"Could it be, for wargamers, that there hasn't been a great movie made about the war that has caught the attention of gamers?"

That certainly could be so, although I think that Pork Chop Hill was an incredibly good movie. Gregory Peck did an outstanding job with it.

I don't know why there isn't more interest in the Korean War. You can definitely get away with WW2 US, UK, and Chinese figures and vehicles.

The movie MASH was released when I was a 12. For some reason my father took me to see it. It was my first R-rated movie, but that's a story for another time.

Anyway, after that I read everything I could find about the Korean War, which was maybe five books, including Michener's The Bridge at Toko-Ri (but I've never seen the movie based on it). I built F-80s, F-86s and MiG-15s in 1/72 scale.

Many years later, I started playing SPI games and miniatures wargames. There weren't many games about the Korean War. I remember playing some Korean War scenarios in SPI's Patrol, which was basically Sniper! outdoors (and a pretty good game, although Sniper! captured my imagination more than Patrol).

MASH wouldn't make a good miniatures game, although it could be fun as an RPG, maybe using Twilight:2000 rules.

My other favorite Korean War movie is The Manchurian Candidate (Frankenheimer's 1962 original, not the much weaker 2004 remake). It could be an interesting RPG as well. The mission to capture prisoners for brainwashing could be gamed out with miniatures.

I think air war for Korea is VERY playable/interesting. You don't need a great variaty of planes and they are also competitive for both sides. And yes, I've got the "bridges of Toko-Ri", If you do not have it you should get it.

Liberation do a load of figures for the Communists -I haven't seen them but they are bound to be good as all their other stuff is.
If I could find a good range of British figs in 20mm, which should be significantly different to WW2 types I'd be happy.
The 10mm stuff from Pithead is excellent so I may go that way although I already have T34/85s, Centurions and Walker Bulldogs in 20mm.

Reiver make 20mm British. Lots of different packs:

link

"The forgotten war" Except for an air combat you might as well play a WWII game.

Let me trip through this lightly lest I be dawghoused.

Korea was the first of the wars in which America was sold out by it's own people. All the wars since then have been sabotaged by the same people. It leads directly to the sad sad state we are in today. It raises too much animus in my soul to be approached at all, and any approach would do disservice to those who were sold out and died bravely defending their assassins.

Well … I find it interesting and have gamed it previously with some of the games mentioned here. I did two tours on the DMZ and 22 months in the ROK, '84-'85. With a US Army Mech Bn. On the lighter side, I was just awarded a Korean Service Defense metal, got it in the mail a few weeks ago. Sorry to ramble on and go OT …

Otto – I think your reference to the "people" really means the politicians, yes? I believe the average American did not sell out the Korean vets, but I get the feeling, much like today, that while we may be at war, on the home front it does not feel like we are, and I imagine that is how it was during the 50s. Korea was small compared to WWII, the economy was booming, and the populace was fairly happy. The politicians seemed to get in the way during Korea, but I would say the people had nothing to do with selling anyone out.

I only know the Korean War through MASH so not a lot to fire my wargamer's imagination.

My grandfather served in the Great War and I have a box of his maps of the front and photographs as well as his regimental history.

The Second World War has huge depth of media coverage, and cool looking German AFVs.

Viet Nam is a vivid memeory for many of us and presents the interest of asymetrical warfare.

Korea is a forgotten mystery to many of us.

What is Korean War you talk about? You must mean Imperialist American War of Aggression Defeated by Our Dear Leader!

Running dog capitalists were utter defeated and pay now tribute to Democratic People's Republic!

You want not wargame you defeat by People's heroic liberation army!
Shame on you!

This written not by Democratic People's Republic officer. This by darthfozzywig American say the society is decadent weak and only pretend wargame so not to face heroic People's army!

"The politicians seemed to get in the way during Korea,"

'Get in they way' like preventing MacArthur starting World War 3?

My eternal thanks to Truman and Eisenhower for not just blindly chucking nukes around.

I'll admit it's not a conflict I've really lookied into (beyond watching MASH), but the impression it gives me is that it's sort-of-Vietnam, but where the equipment is somewhere between 'Nam and WW2.

So, like ArmymenRGreat, I don't really see why I'd want to pick it instead of Vietnam (beyond the potential for modelling the 4077th).

Having said that, if I had buddies that were into the period, I'd certainly not have anything against getting some forces for it. I just don't have the enthusiasm to try and convince people that we should game that conflict, and with it not being a popular one to do, someone is going to need to convince the others.

Ooh, although now this thread has got me thinking of an ultramodern Korean War, with DPRK vs. ROK & allies.

Might have to look into picking up some stuff for that at Triples.

Martin – The MacArthur Craziness is one of the few examples of politicians doing the right thing. :) I just mean the general conduct of the war wasn't pursued in a manner to "win.". We (the U.S.) certainly could have fielded more troops and probably held large portions of North Korea. Comparing the number of divisions we had in WWII to Korea shows not much of a national effort was put forth.

Personally I do not think Mac would have been my choice for commander anyway, since he failed to pick up on the North's buildup prior to invasion.

I also think people forget what our purpose was in Korea. Our mission was to save South Korea from a North Korean take off. We did just that. Now, as things were going so well we decided to go for a bonus and take out North Korea. This did not work. But I grow tired of people claiming this was a lost war. I still see an independent and democratic South Korean on the map today.

Not lost … there is still the truce that has been there since '53. When major hostilities ceased …

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"The politicians seemed to get in the way during Korea,"

'Get in they way' like preventing MacArthur starting World War 3?

My eternal thanks to Truman and Eisenhower for not just blindly chucking nukes around.
*************

Now we're talking about a role-playing game. The Cold War presents all sorts of things to role-play through.

Late Uncle got his bronze stars at Chosin. And a small affair? Next time you're in DC check out the memorial – and the horrific casualty lists that are part of that very moving memorial.

I don't game it because I don't think much of anything post 1900 can be successfully gamed on a table top – spend three hours gaming for 15 seconds worth of real world combat? No, thank you. 1900 and beyond I leave to computer games – but I don't play those either because I have better things to do with my time, like paint my miniatures for those other periods I do like on the table top.

If you are looking for cinematic inspiration, South Korea did a film called "Tae Guk Gi" ("The Brotherhood of War") about ten years ago. It is readily available on streaming services in dubbed and subtitled versions. It is about two brothers who end up on opposing sides. The over the top melodrama is typically Asian, but the battle scenes are intense. A lot of money went into this film. It pulls no political punches--both Korean governments come off looking bad. The few Americans who appear are competent but have a hard time understanding the country they are in.

Here is the trailer, in Korean, but it gives a good sense of the visuals and intensity

YouTube link

Also check out: '71 Into The Fire' and 'The Front Line'.

Pork Chop Hill.

I tried to watch "Inchon," produced by Rev. Moon (remember the Moonies?) with Laurence Olivier as MacArthur. It deserves its reputation as one of the worst stinkers of all time.

I would but have enough trouble trying to get my black powder period buddies into trying my WWII stuff.

Guys,

If you are interested in 28mm gaming, we are producing KPA and Chinese in summer uniforms. See adargacastings.wordpress.com

Comrade Chen

Very excited about that Kickstarter, Comrade C!

"The Bridges at Toko-Ri" is one of my all time favorite war movies. Not much ground action, just Naval Air which is alright by me. Great cast with William Holden, Grace Kelly and Mickey Rooney.

Lt. Harry Brubaker: I'm a lawyer from Denver, Colorado.

CPO. Mike Forney: Judas, how'd you wind up in a smelly ditch in Korea?

Lt. Harry Brubaker: I was just asking myself that same question.

Two of my favorite board games were SPI's "Korea: The Mobile War: 1950-51" and Victory Games "The Korean War" still own them.

Why that didn't transfer to miniatures is probably because, not until recently, there weren't any figures in 15mm or rules. It was way overshadowed by WWII. You give me the choice of spending my money on WWII or the Korean War. WWII wins every time.

I have been doing research and there is not a lot of there in miniatures for Korean War in any scale. No one has a complete run of US/UN/SK/NK/China. Just bits here and there.

Gaming in Korea would finally give those gamers with piles of Pershing tanks a chance to field them in a historical context where they actually fought in significant numbers…

Lack of 'glamour' is one reason. There is no 'hook' like a good film or TV series or even a book. Key personalities are also lacking. No Rommel, Patton or Monty to glorify. MacArthur doesn't really cut it.

Another issue is the terrain is nearly impossible to model. It's mostly mountains with a few city fights. In many ways also a step back from WW2 towards WW1 style static warfare – for much of the war.

Though it would be a curiousity I think it's a dead end with nothing that isn't better done later or earlier.

Well you got the Imjin River battle -it's doesn't get more legendary than that!!
Interesting doc -not sure about footage of British troops with SA80s but apart from that…
YouTube link