"GALATIANS!" Topic

Hello All,

I have a question in search of opinions.

In the ancient sources, it appears the Galatians fought fully nude much later than their western brethren (and it often is that isolated groups hold onto traditions longer than their "mainland" originators…like Vikings in Iceland and paganism).

So, if I accept that entire armies stripped down nude, would this apply to arms like the cavalry?

Is fighting nude from horseback practical? I know some native Americans did on occasion?

If I build a Galatian army all "au natural" would nude cavalry seem foolish or be plausible?

Thank you in advance.

I'm pretty sure that not all of them fought nude. I'd be willing to bet that the cavalry foought vlothed – I can't imaging how it feels riding a charging horse with no pants on :x

IMHO, I think that the cavalry wore clothes. The foot were sometimes naked ( I also think that they built up their courage on drink or drugs ). The other infantry wore clothes! Mike Adams

The Gaestati were drugged up fanatics who fought naked, but most Gauls and Celts wore clothing.

No evidence for the drink and drugs theories.

There are some good reasons for fighting naked but no evidence that all Galatians or Gauls did. Gaesati (spearmen?)were part of a mercenary community hired for the campaign.

I suspect that membership of a warrior cult might be at play in what we see from the sources and possibly young aristos spent part of their youth among them.

Is there even any manufacturer that produces models for naked horsemen?

Dionysius, a Greek of Asia Minor writes of the Galatians in the last decades of the BCs (long after it fell out of favor amongst western Gauls/Celts). He also mentions them in the same passage as having long hair (not short and limed as we envision the classic Gaestati with limed short hair (another difference between them and their western cousins?).

Livy, a Roman Historian who would have been familiar with the dress of Western Celts (and rights a little later than Dionysius), mentions too that the Galatians fought naked (not calling out the fanatics as other Romans did in relation to the Western Celts).

While Greeks and Romans still portrayed their own warriors in art nude (as heroic), this seems different as Dionysius goes to far as to say it was stupid and offered no protection (seems like reporting to me).

Somewhere, there is an excerpt from a Roman General, and I cannot remember where, of an entire Galatian army fighting nude to seek divine intervention (not just the fanatic units).

I have heard the theories of Gasetati being on drugs. However, I cannot find any citations that state this (much like Berzerks). Is there any literary evidence to suggest they were?

A great deal of what we think we know about the Celts/Gauls/Galations/Britons is based on speculation and early writers that had other agendas and/or not really that much first hand experience. I think the same is true for most of antiquity? Now I am aware that some highly educated "historian" may surface with the "we do know this …" and the "Phil Barker said ….." but this will remain my humble opinion forever. So, the moral of the story -- Based on what you think/want/believe/conjecture make what you like.
I have personally built and painted many Celtic type armies through the years in various scales -- read a great deal -- and know there is much speculation on a helmet,a shield, a sword found here or there around the world?
Now back to are broadcast ------- dinosaurs drag their tail,but now do not, they were not reptiles but instead had feathers, etc,etc,etc,etc.
Regards
Russ Dunaway

I agree with that…look at the Victorian early depictions of dinosaurs (way off conjecture not backed up by the skeletal remains) or the medieval maps that show men with Horse heads inhabiting China. I have heard two gamers argue over the correct color of Griffon feathers.

In a practical sense, could nude horsemen work in any use other than skirmishing (like Native Americans did on occasion)?

Any males here? Hands?
Ok.
Imagine you are nude, riding a horse. Oh, let's give you a blanket to sit on.
Still want to ride nude?

QT used to make a nude line of true 25mm figures with separate heads and empty hands. I think they had cavalry but am not sure.

Galatians often went around naked… some fought that way…

The statues of the "Dying Gaul" often used to illustrate Caesar's enemies in books are actually Galatians. The statues in Italy are copies of the statues from Pergamum-- where the Galatians fought and settled in 'Galatia'.

There are many dying Galatian statues from Pergamum-- some wearing clothing some not.

Galatians hired out as mercenaries and there are many statues of Hellenistic soldiers identified as Galatians.

Chances are high they wore clothing on horseback.

As stated the 'heroic nudity' may have been simply a show by a few soldiers, or a dedication… similar to dropping the scabbard to show the sword will not leave their hand… etc.

There is also plenty of armor found on the Pergamum victory reliefs of Celtic style armor…which kind of deflates the idea that they did not have armor…

I would not put a lot of faith in a few reliefs and/or statues and think they may be "historic" when they were done by artists and we have what those artists interpreted. Remember, Caesar killed a ga-zillion Gauls in just his campaigns --dare we think that "historic"???
regards
Russ Dunaway

There is an excellent book called 'Le Soldat Lagide de Ptolemee 1st Soter a Cleopatre' by Stephane Thion that has a section on Galatians that fought (naturally enough) for the Ptolemies. Even if you can't read French, the images of Galatian warriors (both naked and clothed / armoured) are extremely good. Definitely no naked cavalry though!!
His renderings are based on contemporary Stelae and statues, so about as reliable a source as it's probably possible to find.
The book can be found on Amazon – well worth it IMHO.

Seconded on Le Soldat Lagide, very useful.

As an aside, how does wearing tunics without breeches differ from bareback riding nude ( eg numidians)? everything is still going to get crunched so nude riders is not inconceivable…….

Isn't the whole idea of "extra heavy" Norman cav been made up just because of one figure on the Bayeux tapestry showing mail on arms and legs, which could or could not have been mistake/artistic licence? Once again, how do we count as "historical" all the Gauls Caesar supposedly killed?
Regards
Russ Dunaway